Mythic+ and leavers from a new player's perspective

Community General Discussion
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So I’ve been doing mythic+ for a week now and overall I’ve been enjoying it. The progression is good, the difficulty in general is manageable but I’ll get to that later. My biggest issue is leavers. I’m talking the extreme cases where someone leaves after the first wipe. Here’s a situation:

Yesterday doing Siege Lv. 10, and as you know the first boss will sometimes seemingly randomly pull with one of the packs. So that happens. Someone in the party suggests to go to a reset spot. Some of us do that but the tank stays behind. Amidst the chaos an extra add gets pulled and we all wipe. The tank says something redacted in the chat and then, you guessed it, instantly leaves. The rest of us express our annoyance and someone says they are reporting him for leaving. Then we disband.

So I’ve had that experience not once but twice in only one week of mythic+ raiding. And now for my perspective on it. As someone that’s been playing WoW for years including a lot of Classic WoW but never done any mythic dungeons before, let me tell you, in my opinion leaving a mythic+ in such an unjustifiable fashion is the most rude and “toxic” thing you can do in this game. Besides ToS stuff like harassment etc. All the corpse camping, quest giver killing, ninja looting in Classic doesn’t compare to this IMO. In that game at the very least you can get a bad “rep” for acting the way you do but in retail you can just pay for a name change if it gets bad enough.

I get that there’s a nuance to everything. There’s emergencies, and okay maybe you wipe 10 times on a boss sure there’s situations where I get it people wanna leave. But IMO if you queue for a mythic+ one of the hardest types of content in the game you should set aside 30 minutes and if the run does not go the exact way you had imagined (wow, accidents sometimes happen who woulda thought) you should act respectful and not leave unless there’s a mutual agreement to. Especially after just one wipe, like the dungeon can still be timed it’s just gonna be harder. But isn’t that the point? M+ is supposed to be challenging.

Anyway that’s my rant the other complaint I have is some dungeons are way harder than others, particularly Necrotic Wake where the 3rd boss is basically unhealable compared to other bosses. So the tuning feels a bit off overall. You’d imagine that the numbers should at least be relatively the same, and what should set dungeons apart from eachother should be the mechanics.

Overall, I still enjoy m+, but I wish I could do something about the type of people that give up after one or two wipes. Can I report them? I try my best to perform and I imagine everyone does, but sometimes mistakes happens or there’s something that’s out of everyone’s control (first boss bug-pulling in Siege of Boralus).

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If their goal was to time boralius 10 then it’s perfectly understandable. Even with a 0 wipe run and everyone 620+, a couple of deaths is enough to brick the key.
A wipe? Forget it.

Keep doing M+ for a few weeks and you’ll be able to relate to the leavers, even if you don’t become one yourself.

1 Like
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M+ is tough on the higher key levels, some players seek perfection because as Annaconda has explained, it can otherwise not be timed at all.

While someone says they are reporting them, there is no rule against leaving M+ whether if players want it to be.

This part could be reported. But I think the tank itself was also quite frustrated the run failed, depending on what was said over being frustrated at the party.

Like I said to some people, M+ is supposed to be challenging content.

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theo nly mistake in this siatuation was tank writing naything in chat what trolls who bricked key can report out of spite and he can get infraction.

he shouldnt type anything in chat and just leave.

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Is not just about that, yesterday i decided to repush my key to 10, to help couple of friends get a 10 done.

Tank dies to 2nd boss dawnbreaker, we ress, do not taunt while boss is channeling, and once channel is done healer get clapped. We somehow recover from that and tank dies again.

Pointless to keep going since a tyrannical late wipe and +7 affix basically ate so much time to the point that a good key instantly got bricked.

Blizzard made it so you need an almost flawless run to time it, so it is just pointless to try.

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And to add insult to injury, not timing means 60% less crests, so it’s completely understandable if some people don’t want to suffer with a bad group for longer time and fewer rewards.
And in some dungeons like NW a bad group may not even be able to finish AT ALL, so it’s the perfect environment for people to abandon the key.

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They don’t, but for the opposite reason than you say.

When someone’s corpse camping you or killing your quest givers, you literally can’t do anything to play or progress further.

When someone steals loot, that loot is gone for everyone in the group until next reset.

But when someone leaves your M+ run, there’s nothing preventing you from starting or joining another one within minutes.

That’s an insanely high bar.

30 minutes is about the average time you’d expect a M+ run to take, if it’s barely timed. If you wipe 10 times, you’ll be there a lot longer than 30 minutes, and if you wait for mutual agreement to end the run, you might just be stuck there for the next 2 hours.

One purpose of the timer is to provide a challenge, but another is to set an expectaion of roughly how long the run should take to complete. It’s not meant to take significantly longer.

Yes, leaving on the first mistake or wipe is stupid, but on the other hand you need to be realistic. People generally have limited time to play and don’t want to waste much of it on hopeless runs.

This issue also goes both ways. People often feel like others owe them their time just because they are in a run together, but the people causing the run to go wrong never seem to feel like they owe it to others to perform well enough to complete the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time.

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Sometimes, like yesterday it is not even that.

Is just that now, personally a wipe kill my will to finish the key completely, i stick around in 10s till my vault is completed but after that is just pointless now. No chance to recover.

Before i did a Stonevault 9++, with 7:22min on the timer it is insane to think that if i had a similar full wipe to the key i did yesterday, those 7 and half minute would be all almost gone.

And those 7:22 min, extra is in a 9 with a 621 group😂

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A tank cannot just run to a reset spot easily, especially if the group doesn’t cc the pack before… And also, with tanks being so reliant on healers, it’s a bad idea anyway to do this withour voice. Either stand your ground, or communicate properly.

Whether leaving a key is bad, depends on the goals. I would suggest to put in group finder always either “beat timer” or “completion” depending on your goal. If you put “standard”, you run the risk that standard means something else for every person. I usually leave after the 3rd wipe, or if people keep dying over and over, but everyone has their own boundaries.

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Speaking as a non M+er (perhaps somewhat Niave and Traditional thinking) in that Scenario the Tank should have been the one to decide on the tactics.
Tank is de facto Group Leader. They decide on Routes, Pulls and Tactics. They may delegade some of this sometimes.

Added to this is the fact that tanks are in short supply (in the PuG scene certainly) so another reason to not pee them off.

M+ is a test for a Group, not a test of 5 players individually.

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Just want to clarify in this case it was the boss bugging. No one trolled, the boss just pulled with a pack which tends to happen sometimes. No one I have talked to have been able to explain why it happens. So in the situation I described, no one was at fault, except Blizzard for not fixing that bug.

Well, the key gets reduced by one level. Which is frustrating for obvious reasons. That’s what makes it rude. Because the people with the key wants to time it, but he has no chance when someone leaves. So when it happens early, when it is still possible to time, it’s very frustrating.

Okay, that’s a good idea. I guess you could communicate with people before, and agree to complete even if not timed. In my mind I’d rather complete but not time than abandon, even if it takes a while, but I can see that not everyone wants that.

You’re right, and in hindsight I should stuck with the tank. It was likely doomed either way, since pulling a pack with the boss in +10 seems very tough, but I agree, the tank is the leader.

Okay after reading the replies I have to say I’m surprised. I thought I’d have more people backing me up, agreeing that leaving a m+ group in the fashion that I described is dishonest behaviour or whatever you wanna call it. But, I can see that we all have different perspectives; as someone new to m+, I don’t mind the struggle and although I agree the rewards for not timing a dungeon are… disappointing, I’m more in it for the experience. I am not in a race to get the iLvl I desire, I view it as a marathon. But maybe I too would get more jaded with time. Either way I get your guys viewpoints, and I guess I am just gonna have to accept that people will leave keys and it will remain so until there is a policy in place or some sort of punishment for leavers.

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Frustrating, yes. Preventing you from playing the game, no. Also, and this might sound bad at first but that’s how it is, since only the key holder gets their key depleted, the 4 other players are free to just join a new key, and so is the original key holder.
It’s just nowhere near the level of the griefing that is corpse camping, killing NPCs in a quest hub, or ninja looting.

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SoB first boss?

The boss and his adds count as in “global combat” for some reason. Likely due to them in the past being engaged in RP combat with the guards.

This means abilities that do indiscriminate aoe but don’t damage out of combat mobs (Halo, Starfall, Barrage, Etc) do hit them even if you’re not already fighting them.

Best practice is to drag the two packs before chopper either back out of the room or into the corner so the wooden panels under the walkway can act as line of sight.

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Yeah, I guess you’re right. I mean, I’ve seen so much of that in my time playing Classic that I expect to be one shot the moment I walk into Redridge flagged, and so it doesn’t phase me that much, the leaving m+ keys is something I’m new to, so I’m reacting more to it.

Yep. I did read that they are fixing this now, so Siege should be a bit easier. Also, apparently they are finally nerfing Necrotic Wake, so that’s good. Now all they have to do is make healers actually do healing, that would be nice.

1 Like
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Hot take:
Make m+ ranking player feedback based.

Example:

At the end of a dungeon, timed or not, all players gets 1 vote.
You can upvote, or down vote players in your group.

People will vote based on subjective emotions, did they do good, Were they helpful, were they toxic, were they bad?

Vote accordingly.

Leaving a key before the timer has run out? Instant 4 downvotes.

Boosting vote ranks for gold?
Why would 4 friends waste their vote on a single scrub for gold, and scuff their own vote score?
Sure, boost for hold for the loot, but your score wont go up that way, they will boost eachother.

Will this be “abused” by salty trolling people? Absolutely, but what does 1 vote matter comoared to the hundreds of others you will accumulate.

It will encourage people to help out, to get that upvote.

It will filter people based on skill, and attitude.

Sure, add a little extra if you time it, maybe everyone who times it gets 1 auto updoot. A lil extra incentive.

Can still show what keys are timed, how well they got timed, but tie it to the acore as the only factor.

I hear of tons of people getting groups where a tank will pull too much, die, and leave.

Dps that die, and leave.
Healers that cant dispell, and leave.

If all else fails, there needs to be a tangible punishment for leaving before timers has gone out.

Hek, remove half the score in the current system, and that would go a long way.

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Honestly, at this point, I’d love it if people who leave before let’s say 5-10 deaths or a certain amount of time (15ish minutes), just lose a chunk of their mythic rating.

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WoW is not a solo game, so playing M+ solo and just joining random groups with random players is not a great way to play.

If you want better results, kinder people and more meaningful interactions and relationships, then join a guild and run M+ as a guild group. You’ll find a lot of good people who play this game actually never join PUG groups, so you’d never play with them just by joining random groups.

Otherwise there’s nothing Blizzard can do to stop people leaving a group if they choose to do so. To brute force a dungeon can take upwards of an hour and there’s no way I’d suffer that with a random group of people. Although the last time I did a dungeon with random players was around Season 2 of DF.

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Honestly, I think its fine. If the key wasn’t timeable then why stay? You get like what 3 crests for completing a non-timed run?

Does it suck to be a dps when tanks / healers leave after a wipe when you’ve been waiting for long to get a group? Sure. But that’s the end game, people are there to increase raiting and push keys, not to have build a social relation with the group.

If you care for “back in the day your reputation meant something!” why don’t you take a page out of that “back in my day!” book and find a guild or a community? Don’t take it the wrong way, but there are so many out there, where people will do try to finish a +10 even with 100+ deaths for vault or to learn.

Had it been a +2 okay, that may be a bit over the top… But +10 is a make it or break it key, not a lot of room for “bugs” and “mistakes”

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Sometimes I don’t get Blizzard why they don’t improve their pretty good systems. There’s still a big room to improve.

  • Award players for listing and completing their own keys. Chance for another item or something. Maybe even an award for party diversity so there won’t be only meta classes all the time idk.
  • You did 20 keys of the same dung just for one item and still didn’t get it? (Literally like my friend). Give us tokens that we will get from every m+ or with a small chance of dropping so we will be able to buy what we want.
  • Just like vote for kick in lfd. Make an option to vote for leaving a key. If not, person who will leave will be punished.
  • For a new players make an very short simple videos/guides in game explaining basics like interrupts, switching to add, what specific effects from mobs/bosses means etc.
  • and at last revert keys squish from DF S4. Delete this painful death penalty. I prefer do 2 wipes and still complete the key rather than after one wipe seeing party being destroyed, and coming back to the miserable long queue in the city. People without knowledge and skill are jumping from +2 to +5 to +7/+8 not knowing what to do on the dungeon, and that is one of the reasons toxicity is coming from. Slower jumps to +15, then +20/+24 was way better in my opinion. People will spend even more time getting there, isn’t that what you want Blizzard? To subscribe longer? S1 of TWW is the worst season I have played imo.
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i understand you are new player to M+ but not to wow

so, nobody holding you hostage it is tank good will to stay or leave after things go wrong
me on my tank give 2-3 chances but if i see we cant kill the boss even with BL i say politely bye bye and move on

look, we are now 3 months into the expansion
people just wanna probably time a key +10 and get their portal and bail out
so thats second thing you need to understand