That’s kind of interesting. Hope they actually go through with this.
6 Likes
they killed m+ and the most played end game content with this change. gg blizzard. addon not even released and we already got the first big L. Sorry it was the second of course. m+ looked out from tsets for the first 6 weeks.
Whats the next move? abandoned after 2 patches? End boss mythic drops 430 and weekly vault will be 418. Yep buy those wow tokens gor mythic carry and high item level tsets
that change will affect most aotc guilds. no one will play your boring, overtuned with one shot mechanics depending on other 19 players, raids.
5 man content is the future and thex will realize that in the nect financial report lol
7 Likes
Well certainly they havent killed IT but its another … in the face of majority of players just so that top 1 percent of nolifers can be happier and so that they can justify wasting resources on activity nobody wants to do aka mythic raids.
Its one among many many things in DF which make IT dead on arrival.
This also will make 16-18 keys severly much less fun because players WHO dont belong there will look for Free carry .
3 Likes
20k people have cleared mythic raids and i could guarantee you that a decent amount of that were on alts by the same person.
How many players are left in the game? They really love the 1%.
m+ is f. this addon srly
- old dungeons
- ksm mount is a kodo skin not a dragon
- loot table is worse than raid loot
- loot item level is worse than raid loot
- no tset for 6 weeks
- weekly loot lottery with vault
maybe delete this part of the game and see how many players are left. man i wish microsoft would actually do something and improve the game. 
8 Likes
Good and bad.
Good for vault now you will be barely behind Mythic raids level of IO for vault’s scene since the majority of the playerbase who even mythic raids isnt going to be clearly the mythic end bosses to the point where their loot Ilvl is expected.
Bad for normal gearing since it means you have Ilvl worse then heroic gear when you doing content which is pretty much just as challenging. In my opinion make loot from 18s or 20s give equal to mid heroic bosses and allow full KSH to upgrade to max heroic Ilvl so now the majority of heroic raiders wiill not be effected and not really think its worth to get full mythic+ gear from the heavy requirements for the last upgrade tier while also allowing avid + players to be able to push their content without needing to raid for the mid-high level key range
2 Likes
reusing content is perfectly fine is its used in a way that hasn’t been done before with most of the old dungeons never been seen in a M+ pool. Since throwing away all of the game each xpac for these past 6 years is horrid. What I’m mixed about is how old dungeons are in season 1 and not season 2 and the following.
This is just preference and doesn’t matter since many people find it cool and silly, what i don’t like is how it cant fly everything else with it is fine.
This is all a tuning and rng thing, in S3 and S4 with bit bands many items from M+ where outright better then raid pieces even with lower Ilvl and vice versa raid piece’s Only exceptions were the legendries and wannabe ones that were insane to the point where their lfr versions where better then mythic versions of other trinkets.
Only somewhat valid statement here.
Tier sets barely matter for most classes this first raid tier so its a very slight problem. With how the cata worked with its charges the first one doesnt matter rather the 2nd charge does. Since why care if you get first charge day 1 if the 2nd is 2 months away. I’d only be mad myself as a M+ pusher if we had set bonuses as powerful as the one’s we have currently in SL being heavily gatekept.
Everything in this game is rng same with raiding I dont understand why this is a problem to you. I know people who have cleared KT on heroic and sometimes on mythic and no jaithys ever and for my own case I have done like 30+ runs on my mage for bit band and never seen it on him.
Microsoft will do very well not listening to people who have no clue what they are talking about and are most likely LFR heros or do 5-12 and think the game is balanced around these factors. Fyi im not a elitist nor I’m I trying to insult people who do lower end content but you most realize that the game is not tuned and balanced around the low end of the spectrum but it should be fun for all ends so people can enjoy themselves
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It will be much harder for most of the people, because around 18+, meta-only brainwashed people increase exponentially (asking 3 survival, 3 rouge/ instert any random meta only combo said by xyz streamer).
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Time to invest into m+ increase alot (for working up to +18), def not many people gonna like it. Will see how that gonna play out.
3 Likes
Not a fan of it scaling to 18 personally, primarily because as others have said the try hardy meta slaving thing will be real, early impressions of this from me are negative but I’ll wait until i hear everything Blizzard has to say in that post they said is coming.
That said, I’m not getting my hopes up, I feel Ion is really pushing that raid or die crap.
4 Likes
you clear the raid once and then its always the same boring farm raid. the cool thing they did with m+ was the scaling and affixes if its not necrotic. How can you ruin one of the best content in the game for boring raiding lol.
There is only 1 reason why they are doing this and thats hc loot was too bad compared to m+ loot and you are right it was.
BUT we play m+ for fun. Doing the same dungeons over and over. They only admit that no one wants to do their raids for FUN and only for gear 
.
1 Like
The only reason is desperately want to force people into raiding even though people clearly tell them they dont want to RAID.
Ion Has obssesion with that. He is ready to conpellty destory the game as long as IT caters to 1 percent aka nolifers
4 Likes
true ^^ nothing to add here. In bfa it was pvp which had to raid now its m+. where is the m+ stat like pvp gear. easy solution no m+ carry in raids and we have our fun in the best content in the game.
They can have the raid and deal with group loot drama and farming the same stuff for months until you get the piece you desperately need.
I mean people that in the past stopped at +15 were willing to go to +20 just for portals. So +18 seems generous.
Still, imagine if it is +25 by next expansion. Even WoW gear cannot escape inflation it seems.
1 Like
‘‘Tier sets barely matter for most classes this first raid tier’’
how can you claim this when sepulcher was tuned around 20/20 raiders wearing their 4 set, but lets dial down from cutting edge progression to casual/pug content.
Do you really expect people in lfg that are doing 18 and upwards to not have an ‘‘note 4 set’’ in their key listed? this also happend in season 3 and it felt horrendous lacking 4 set while wanting to do the content that i love doing outside off raid nights, the groups that are just yolo selection players without tierset even assuming all are on the same skill level its still an much higher difficulity
How so?
Because now you have to run 3 key levels higher?
That’s not even a noteable difficulty increase.
That is how it always has been…
What are you even panicking for?
It will completely depend on the scaling of the dungeons. They could have also made +15’s as hard as current +18’s for example.
We’ll see what happens. But the last expansions s1 was the hardest. We got to timing 1 +19 in the end of s1 in SL for example. And in s1 BFA i got 1 +14 timed. While in Legion at the end i timed some +20’s too.
Exactly…
These ppl panic so hard for no reason whatsoever…
“Omg no they killed M+”.
If anything killed M+ it’s adding 4 old dungeons in season 1 
2 Likes
While i dont disagree as such with what you say, there is one important thing to note in what you say.
Season 3’s 4 sets, for some classes it meant a 30% + dmg increase in ST, even more in AoE… Hello hunters …
Hopefully bliz has learnt that, that scenario is not ok in any way.
As to the whole 15 goes to 18 thing for max loot …
At one point it was +10 that gave max loot, going to 15 didn’t “ruin M+” so i see no reason why going to +18 should “ruin M+”
Yeah, on sim our survival hunter with or without 4 set was about 47% increase on dungeon slice. On +17-+18 we just stopped playing for some weeks till we got 4 set. Instant upping the keys to +21-+22 by just doing exactly the same as on the 17-18’s.
For now the DF tiersets look decent enough to not have too much influence.
Exactly…
I remember being buttom DPS on my hunter, until i got 4set … I was all of a sudden top by a large margin …
That was bloody obscene …
Looking at the tier sets for DF, it seems to be maybe a 5-10% DPS increase.
While decent, nowhere near as bad as Season 3 SL
1 Like
They really havent… +18s arent that hard given +20s is more common then any other key right now.
It seems to be all thats run almost.
Dont blow things out of proportion. Ion has gone on record to say they intend DF to be easier then SL difficulty wise.
You dont even need to time the key for the reward… like its pretty simple.
Oh and:
No, the last 2 bosses of mythix raiding will drop 430, the rest of them drop 418, lets also ignore proffessions can now equalise with mythic gear also.
Theres less reason to raid in DF then there is is SL.
Mythic raiders may get 3 or 4 pieces of gear that are higher then urs 