Mythic + Dungeon Deserter - From US forums

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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I just think deserter debuff should be 6hours, not 20minutes. It should be punishing.
Repeated leaves should lead up to 7days deserter, so people would think twice about non-sense key leaves.

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Could we also auto log runs and have that displayed, might encourage people to press their buttons in keys :wink:

Oh, can we have that as well for people who don’t interrupt
 or don’t do mechanics? Would be awesome


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This would be so fun :smiley:

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Miss an interrupt, bam 6 hour ban, miss 2
well come back next week!
Stand in a frontal
 really
 that should just start with a 12 hour ban.
Who knows, leavers might also disappear with that change :thinking:

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Who is determining what a “non-sense key leave” is? Is that you? Is that they keyholder (essentially giving him admin rights at this point)?

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You can put everything in numbers and logical rules.
For starters, if you leave a key that is deemed “completable” by a system - then you get 24h dungeon deserter. And the “completable” part may be counted by trash% / key level / # of remaining bosses VS time remaining on the dungeon. Blizzard has tons of available data and can easily put rules which draws info from statistics.

One “non-sense” leave could be leaving +12 key on a last boss with 14mins remaining on the timer.

Or leaving a key after first trash pack wipe on +18 key (which is quite common to pull larger pack at the start to blow CDs - like HoA, SD, Spires, etc. first pulls which are very risky).

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Problem is, especially on higher keys, if you wipe on the first pull, which as you say is often risky, the key is often over.

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Hi all, thank you so much for all your feedback and thoughts.

Thank you for the nice supporting words bro! In all honesty, all I am trying to do is reminding blizzard that there is a serious issue with m+ and hopefully, eventually, they will put this matter on their radar and look at posts like this one where they can see different perspectives on the matter from the get to.
Like most of you here I have been playing online for many, many years and truth be told I will have to disagree with you and say that this game has some of the nicest, helpful people I have ever found online which feels to me like the majority of people playing and hence why I keep coming back.

If you look at other games with competitive/ranked modes they all have measures in place to make sure that the people who decide to stay and try to reach the objectives are not the only ones penalized by someone who doesn’t care about their key leaving. Normally the whole team will get something bad happening to them, i.e. all losing rating. You still see people being toxic in those games and yes you get stuck until the end of it, but you can ignore those players to mute their chat and voice.
It’s hard to pinpoint where to draw the line in “undergeared” or “skilled” so I would never look at that. The solution here is to leave the party before the key is activated after inspecting the players.
I have timed keys recently where you could say my party had “undergeared”/“skilled” +21, +22 with 10+ deaths and 12k DPS. I had players in the past leaving mid-run because we didn’t have enough DPS or because people were dying too much. Timed SD+21 couple of weeks ago 16 deaths, 2x 12k DPS in my team. But all remained calm and patient so we timed it.
A player’s perception of minimum “skill” or gear will be different to the next player. I can say that none of my pugs were ever flawless where I see people with kicks available and not using them, some1 dies, we carry on and we time the key.

I would love to see the figure of 5 players in the same friend list or guild vs teams pugging. Blizzard just need to look at player trends to see if what they believe the game was designed for is the way people actually been playing it for years.

I have timed “high-ish” keys in fortified weeks with full single target comp and vice-versa. Full cleave team on tyranical weeks. With and without “meta” classes of the time.

I agree if when you enter the looking for group tool you don’t set the objective to “completion” instead of “standard” or “beat-timer” and even then I still believe a deserter buff is needed as players perceptions of what’s doable vary immensely.

As I said above, sometimes things look terribly wrong for some players who leave too early and we can still time key. I.e. “high-ish” keys withs 12k DPS players and 16 deaths.

I believe it’s a good tool regardless of how much people decide to use it. But I am convinced a “surrender vote system” would be best.

Thanks for sharing bro, had no idea. Shame it didn’t take off!

This has been the case for many years. I suppose the game is too complexed to be perfectly balanced. The intent of my post wasn’t to establish why the majority of people leave the game though. Thanks for your input nevertheless :slight_smile:

I like this! I find myself some weeks giving up on my key after it depletes a few too many times.

I am happy for your mate! Hope things will stay that way for you :slight_smile:

Simple and helpful! I would defo look at this stat if available.

Right now you can literally spend the whole day joining keys just to deplete them. You could enter, wait for activation and fake DC or just leave without any punishment. How is this a good system in your eyes?
In most competitive online games available right now all players get some kind of negative effect if someone leaves/DCs mid-game and the team loses. Mythic+ is becoming super toxic and demoralizing as players are encouraged to leave at the pettiest thing that doesn’t please them. I.e. 1-2 players dying at the start, not liking tank’s route. I find myself questioning why mythic+ even has a score system when you allow players to chose not to be competitive without any consequences.

I see where you coming from and mentioning a few extremes. The difference is: you can time keys if people don’t press the right keys at all times or if people die a lot more than some players believe possible and still time the key.
You won’t time a key you need for progress with 4 players. That’s the big difference.

This is a very important notion! Thanks for your input bro.

I don’t think it would ever go this far into detail. Borderline Utopia, but a very nice thought. However, I do believe that right now the vast majority of players that leave a key too early have a very unrealistic expectation of what the “minimum requirements” are and should be punished/slowed down a bit on the blazing trail of depleted keys.

Well we will never know will we? :slight_smile: not with 4 players anyway. But if a deserter buff is in place, the chances that we will find out one day will go up even if just slightly.

Thanks all again for taking the time to share your views. Like I said, more than anything if more people like me believe there is a problem with leavers in m+, it’s important to just keep reminding Blizzard every now and again that this is a real problem and the community would benefit from a change. Eventually in the future they might actually spend sometime looking into it and decide if something needs to be done or not. Cheers!

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I don’t know. Never happened to me, and i see no argument against my post at all.

People are kept hostage in a group they do not want to be in anymore. It is not going to end well.

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Anyone who’s actually done some M+ knows
 if you blow BL and all CDs on first pull and wipe, key is done unless it’s some low key where nothing matters.

Again, you’re wrong
 maybe not when talking about a +5, but those can easily be done with 4 people as well, hell i had an internet outage 10min into a plus 20 ones, and my team still timed the key, but you get to a point where “oh someone didn’t interrupt, so X person got one shot”
Or X person messed up Y mechanic which means we wipe and key is over.

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I don’t agree. And probably it will be forever impossible to have an accurate certainty if in that situation the key would be over or not without first trying to complete it fully.
I do agree however, that your chances to time the key would have been reduced just then.
This is in line with what I believe is a major problem at present: most players have a very unrealistic “feel” of what’s possible to time or not. It’s either flawless from the start or leave, to some players.

Granted, if it is flawless you have more chances to time it. What I can’t agree with you is, just because something bad happens at any point of the run the key is over and everybody knows it.

What you said here is really important. This actually shows that what you might see right now as a depleted key in general, might not be. That could probably be the equivelent time loss to “f you blow BL and all CDs on first pull and wipe, key is done unless it’s some low key where nothing matters.” 10 mins without 1 player is probably actually worse for total of time lost.

You could argue that one player leaving a key whenever they like with no consequences just made 4 other players hostage for about 1 hour. Which is the time it will take to get that key to the same level.

Thanks again for your input :slight_smile:

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The difference is, we went into a key expecting an easy +2
 most pugs go in where if they play good, they can just time it


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Thought I would share with you an example of why I believe it’s important to give players a reason to at least think twice about leaving a key. Tbh, I’m 100% sure they would still leave but at least a debuff would slow them down.

Keep your eyes on the mage. Dies to Spiteful as ranged. Then dies to Depraved Darkblade’s Deadly Thrust a short range frontal. Then leaves to deplete the key.

In his mind the other players are to blame and he has every right to leave.

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I cannot see pretty well what happened with the spiteful, the mage probably did misplay, but with the Darkblades you had died and you had no aggro on those mobs. I am not sure if he died to the frontal, he might have died to their melee, cause after he died you still did not have aggro on the mobs and they went for the healer.

And I am not sure why are you tanking all the melee and shard so far away from the casters? You had several chances to move them to get them grouped. Your dps could not aoe cc or cleave properly. Sure, there should have been interrupts so the mobs could come, but with how fast they cast you are the one that has to group them when the shard is not aoeing.

Not going to lie, that pull looks very scuffed, so I guess the mage did think this does not bode well for the rest of the dungeon. I do mostly play with friends, so I might see this differently, but we would probably have called the key off after a first pull like this.

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Hey Minarra!
Thanks for your input.
Tbh, my intent wasn’t to discuss if we could be a MDI team or not. But nevertheless, I appreciate any feedback specially on my own gameplay so I can improve.
10 minutes later after the ragequit I was doing that same pull and timing he dungeon on the same level :slight_smile:

Point is, there are at least 100 ways to time a key for any given dungeon. If people stay cool and collected you can time runs that look messy. Leaving a key that early after you messed it up twice? - not anyone else forced you to come melee to Spiteful or melee to a 1-shot ability. If the mage stayed alive that pull would be over before I died. Would you really leave that key as well in the same position?

Are we, the players and puggers, only supposed to play keys that look tidy and the way we like them??? What is tidy and what is messy? How should the game exactly look like?? Or should we all agree together to end a run when it doesn’t look good to all? I can tell you that the other 4 players stayed another 2minutes in the dungeon in disbelief. It was an important key for them.

If you look closely, you can see the frontal cast finishing right on the mage’s face. He had no aggro, the resto druid had all of it. Mage had just arrived too it would take him a few seconds at least to build enough aggro to take it from the healer (even I was struggling to get the aggro back without taunt).

When I pug, I always tank near the edge of the platform and I often recommend other tanks to do the same. That way you are sure there’s no space in front of the Darkblades for people to suicide to :slight_smile:

Thanks again! Hope your keys are going well this week!

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