Mythic+: hyper-design and incentives

I’ll start this off by saying: I like running Mythic+. My problem isn’t necessarily with the concept, but the route it’s taken.

Here’s my hot take: I think MDI is bad for the players. Yes, yes, it’s fun to watch. I’ve enjoyed watching it. But it has some consequences, mainly:

Meta builds. I know they’re not necessary for running a 15 or even 17 or whatever. But the trickle-down effect is that people think they are, or that they at least make any run more likely to beat the timer. And it may even be true, but regardless of whether it’s true or not, it makes it harder for non-meta specs to get into 14s or higher. In short, people get an overinflated sense of the value a given spec adds to a group.

Hyper-design. As MDI players become better at the game, and beating the designers of the game, the designers will have to figure out ways to raise the stakes. This has been done by increasing the cost of failure in several dungeons, whether it be in the form of single-use tools (ie. Necrotic Wake), long corpse runs (ie. Spires of Ascension), packs that are best invis-skipped, Prideful timings, or whatever. Seeing a team fail at something in MDI is very exciting, but personally struggling with Tyrannical Stitchflesh because we don’t have a special weapon anymore is less so.

Incentives. These are not insurmountable obstacles, of course. It takes practice. I, as a player, perform worse under pressure, such as people shouting at me or knowing people will leave if a group wipes. Needless to say, pugs aren’t for me. Gosh, do people actually learn something in pugs under those conditions? So I play with guildies, and we hone our craft together. We might fail keys, but we can have a conversation about it later, and deal with it better next time. Our group becomes more and more tightly knit, where we only really play as that one group anymore. Anyone else in the guild looking to get even 4 Mythic+ runs on any given week might have a hard time doing so, because both our teams have become exclusive cliques. So while I’m grateful for having been included in a team, I don’t like the exclusivity it creates. Because as the teams get better at handling with specific situations and playing as a unit, the the gap between a team and non-team players widens, and bridging that gap becomes increasingly difficult.

At the end of the day, this is just a rant. Putting some of my frustrations on the screen. I don’t have any particular suggestions or fixes, but I do wonder if there was a way to make M+ a bit more inclusive, a bit more conducive to learning, without sacrificing MDI… Though from what I’ve heard, even MDI isn’t doing too hot as an e-sport right now.

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This is very much true.

I keep thinking that the main issue is that keys deplete. If they didn’t and you could always start a dungeon at any level the keyholder has timed - I think the m+ pug scene would be a lot healthier. Keys can still be random drops from completing an instance, it’s just that though, a key. It doesn’t have a level, only you the player does. So the concept of +, ++ and +++ still endures.

The other part of your post will always be true though - the more you play together as a team the better you perform. Getting a new player in will initially decrease your performance. Nothing can solve that, that’s how humans are wired.

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The last part is certainly always true, but I keep thinking that it isn’t a binary, but gradual truth. What I mean is that the degree of “telepathy” that a group requires is relative to the cost of sub-par execution. Currently, as my group has seen, even a small mistake at the wrong place can lead to failing the timer, because the corpse run takes 3 minutes or you lose single-use tools or prideful or whatever. I can’t speak to how it was in BfA, but this certainly didn’t use to be the case in Legion.

So I guess I’m saying that it’s okay if 15s are challenging, but should they fail at the drop of a hat? Not in my opinion. If you want to keep it that way in MDI, you can always scale up the keys to run, but us semi-casuals trying to get the achi mount or whatever else it’s kinda unheard of.

While you lay a lot of “blame” on MDI, i think that is incorrect when looking at the forums… Forums clearly indicate that the Meta is Balance and Fire and Rogue/WW

Meanwhile, MDI is primarily Fire/Unholy/WW with Rogue for NW and an odd balance druid for Mists.

So looking at forums, it’s clear to me at least, that the pug community gets their meta information from the highest running teams on RIO. The problem with this is that what the highest running teams are using might only be the best, when you’re running the highest dungeons for example … Was the same in BFA, everyone wanted fire mage, but they weren’t really good till you hit the 21-23, and then truly shined in the high high keys.

We see the same right now, more with Balance, in low keys it’s actually quite trash, packs dont live long enough so they can do their full damage, sure they can murder bosses because they have no HP. But brining a balance to a 12 over say, warrior, enhance ? ehhh … no. Not saying balance can’t do good in low keys, it just requires the rest of the team to be lackluster in terms of damage for them to truly shine.

The trouble is trying to convey this information in a way that the broader community understands that is very hard, after all, little Jimmy sees Gingi do something on stream that’s really cool, and wants to do that himself. How is he to know that the only reason Gingi can even do that is because the key level is now so high that it allows him to do it?

TLDR
The meta in the pug community is mostly made by a big portion of the playerbase, who didn’t take their time to understand why and when it becomes the meta.

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Well written, OP. Just not worth playing M+ because it’s just not a pleasant environment.

If I want to challenge and push myself to my limits, I can go work, or exercise.

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