Mythic+ needs reworking

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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Solo playing in M+ is starting to become really really boring, even though it’s in my opinion the most fun in WoW. The reason for it being boring is mostly the time it takes to find a key. I can spend 15-60 min. looking for keys to join I haven’t done before (to increase m+ score), and then it can all be over in the very first pull of the dungeon with a wipe.
Then I can of course play my own keys and I usually do by the start of the week, but if it fails or I get a key I’ve already done the motivation for doing it again is just really low. I want to increase the difficulty, not trying to do it all over again.
I even play quite a lot with my friends, so I can just imagine how hard it is for solo players (and then think about the players not playing S-Tier specs/classes).

Then there is also the fact that after the recent change of getting rating for depleted keys above +20 just counts as a depleted 20. This means there is no reason for completing the key = more people leaving keys if they feel like it wont be timed. This really sucks for the keyholder, because then they have the same dungeon key, but in a lower level, which they most of the times don’t need = again low motivation to do the key.

My suggestion is the system needs to be more like something in Diablo 3. You can choose your own key and increase it level by level. People in the group can’t join more than 1 level above their own previous key level completion. The whole idea right now of playing to get a random key is first of all not fun, so being able to choose which key you want to do, practice or what ever will bring the whole experience of doing M+ up. It will most likely also increase the lower rating players to be more confident to play M+, as I see many people finding it difficult because of a random key based system atm.

Then there is the whole affix system which also needs some major reworking. Fortified and Tyrannical is absolutely not fun in +20 keys. The scaling of health and damage is absurd. I like it being challenging, but I don’t like that ex Enhancement Shamans can’t use ankh in high level Nokhud Tyrannical keys, because then they can’t survive the spear on last boss or Gale Winds on twin bosses without the “Bimming with Life” talent. This is an absurdity. This is just one example.
The affixes themselves are mostly not fun. They just become annoying and especially for healers. The is no reward for affixes except for Thundering, which is a horrible affix itself in some boss scenarios.

I’ve seen a lot of posts talking about affixes and I’ve not seen a single positive one about them, so when are you going to listen to the community? When there is no players left and you must try to save the game again? There is so many “pro” M+ players qutting the game after this season, because they are not being rewarded enough by playing M+.

Then there is the reward system. I mostly play M+ which means I don’t get any gold by doing it, only spending a lot of food buff, phials, repair, runes, pots, new enchants etc. I’ve no idea how much I spend a week, but it’s way more than I make which forces me to do content I don’t like (Professions, farming, world quests)

I’ve loved M+ since it’s introduction in Legion, but at a certain point I always end up quitting simply because the system drives me mad.

5 Likes
2

This person is so correct, the system is very flawed and blizzard needs to help their playerbase with pugging in general, especially the fact the key instant decreases level upon start, it gives so little room for error and zero chances to practice a key to nail it in time in a proper key level!

You see it everywhere people not getting invited, sitting 5-8 hours getting spam declined, not wanting to login again, and who can blame them? If they don’t play a certain spec, fit the comp, has +100 score more than the leader, then their chances of an invite is pretty much not there… It is so inefficient and not friendly for the general public that wanna get into the key scene.

xoxo ur friendly gamer
Låvepømp

2 Likes
3

Pretty much agree with OP.
M+ feels pretty neglected considering the reward structure as well… Especially “M+ only” players. We’re doomed to lower iLvl than raiders, granted we typically get gear faster than raiders albeit forever lower ilvl. it somehow also always seems to be worse than specific raid pieces. Howcome raiders get these cool, badass mega special giga rare items and m+/pvp players are stuck with the same FISHing doggie fart dungeon loot from 6-12 years ago.
We can’t even get a FISHing dragonriding skin, those are reserved for the “real” pillars of endgame. My god.
Let the gear dropping in my content be bis for my content, give me cooler cosmetics than a four-legged turd in 3-4 different colors over two years. Then consider giving me my FISHing tier set before week 10 for the unlucky ones.

Heil.

3 Likes
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From these two comments i really get the vibe that you are just bored of the game. First of all most my pugged keys deplete which i have gotten used to by pugging for over 5 years.
The problem of finding a group for a key is like you said up to you since you can make your own group for your own key. And sometimes your own key is not a key that you need timed in order to receive score but sometimes that is the case. Sometimes you have to relevel your own key or you do someone elses key so that you can reroll your key to a different dungeon. The point is that if you are going to enjoy m+ its about the journey not the end goal.

So you saying that you would prefer a system where you could choose key level, and which dungeon just sounds to me like you really only care about generating m+ score.

This is something i can get behind. I actually made my own forum post about this issue that tyrannical week is just 10x less fun than fortified because of the fact that bosses are impossible without insane team coordination.

But i dont think that we should touch the rest of the affixes. I honestly dont see any problem with them. The one thing about them i can say is that on average melees dps is alot more affected by the affixes than ranged dps. But other than that i dont think we have any affixes like skittish in the rotation currently.

I mean how do pvpers or raiders make more money from their activities than m+? If their guild doesnt sell boostruns to pay for their consumables im pretty sure they are also forced to do stuff like WQs and profs.

According to your raiderio on the character you are posting on, you are 3k currently and you havent gotten above 500 rating any other season other than the last season of BFA wen you hit 1.7k.

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This IO Points System should be reworked completely. I have no Idea why Blizz has decided to make it very similair to Raider IO but during LFG on my raiting - IO Points say already amost nothing about the player. The purpose to push higher to get more IOs is just pointless and the system is showing only top of the Iceberg. I mean I have seen a lot of Prot Paladins with 3350 but they have done only 60 keys intime and they are riping 25s keys cause they dont understand micro mechanics of this class and of some packs or bosses. Groups are still looking for protpalas and they are not even giving me, on VDH, (same for warlocks, warriors, monks, hunters etc non meta classes) any chances with about 250 keys timed and about 1000 tries. Ppl are looking for meta classes, not meta players. This IO system works only incase if u apply into 2 lvls lower. In keys u need for PTS u have almost 0 chances to get in (if u are not meta class) - they take on ur place Metarerollers with 50 keys intime and almost same io as u - they rip - they now happy to take u (non meta) for the dungeon (1lvl lower then it was) and u have already timed cause all other players in Q arewill have already 100io lower then u.

I think this system created this word - Meta Classes. I have no idea why ppl are so extremely deep focuses on top1 Team that has decided to push on classes they are used to play. Why are these classes meta? Nobody thinks about Setup of the group in general - they are just looking very focused and completely blind for classes they think could boost the key due to “meta” status.
NO! The key will be pushed ONLY with Experience done on exactly this character. And I m not speaking about IOs - I m speaking about experience: how many keys were Retimed, in different setups, on different affixes.

So I think we should really get extra PTS for retimed keys (+1 or +2). Comparing to metarerollers with 50keys intime and same io as others on non meta classes but with 250+ intime, we will look much more attraktive for groups cause we v done soooo many on our class and we are much more better then all these metarerollers and we know every pixel of this dungeon on OUR class.

Every class can play! Every! We just need to Ruin this Meta Stereotypes and just make some changes to score system giving Players that are playing since start of the season and playing hundreds of keys MORE pts comparing to those who have decided to switch in the middle of the season on meta classes to get INSTA Invites and still rip the key due to lacks in mechanics and due to not understanding how this class works!

This META Konzept is ruining GameExperience.

We just need to fight against Meta.

1 Like
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I do get bored of the game over time because it stops being rewarding at some point. If you just do or repeat stuff, but are not rewarded in any way, then yes, the game gets boring. Let me ask what is the end goal for you if you deplete more keys than you complete? If Mythic bosses in raiding is an end goal is the most common end goal in M+ not to keep pushing yourself in higher and higher keys?

I don’t understand how any of that is related to my comment?

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A depleted run isnt just bad for you. Afterwards you have prob learned how not to make the same misstake again. M+ is designed to be this endless treadmill, the goal of it is to just get more and more experience, learn how to do more damage, learn the dungeons mechanics, and these things you can do even during depleted runs.

I think that there are alot of people that dont like how important M+ is when it comes to loot for example the great vault . So alot of people feel forced to do M+ which is something they dont like and therefore want to institute all of these changes to M+ to make it more comfortable for them. And based on your profile it looks like you are one of those.

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Of course there is a learning process, but there is not really a learning process to do keys I’ve already done. If I complete a key higher than I already have, then the learning process is usually greater, since I know what I did right and I know where to use the right defensives for the next key.

For your assumption I can tell you it’s the opposite. I don’t feel like raiding much because then I’m locked into playing X day at X time which I don’t like anymore. That’s why I think M+ is fun because I can log on and play. But that changes when you go up in IO score, because the competition gets really rough. No one is inviting anyone with a lower score than themselves and everyone wants a S-Tier spec. So I often end up searching for keys for a long time which can then deplete on the very first pull. GGWP. Next one.

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Yes there is. Just by playing your class during a key that wont yield you any score you improve your hps or dps or mitigation. Its an endless treadmill like i said.

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Hello Djfármville
It’s some really interesting takes considering you are 2.6xx rio, which is really really casual. Now when you mention OP’s rio xp current, and past seasons.
Keep it relevant to the topic, the system and meta riders is a major issue for the general pugging player. Just see Anjuna, 3.3k tank. That’s a ton of experience, and from past seasons aswell.

So next time before you post a reply to a thread with pretty casual “rio/blizz score” open the window and get a some fresh air before you semi flame the op, he has some valid takes.

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I was bringing up his background because it was necessary to make my point. That non M+ players want to make M+ super easy with 0 affixes just so that they can get easy vaults and gear from it.

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But your point was a an assumption and I never said I want M+ to be easy. I want it to be challenging, but the only real challenge right now is getting into a key that you actually wanna do.

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Yeah my point was that i think people including you want to make M+ more endurable for people that dont like it but are forced to do it cause of gear. And i brought up the fact that you have not really played m+ consistently for a single season since BFA to illustrate an example of my point.

I also pug hc raids not because i like it, but because of the gear and that it looks good on raiderio to have some hc progress. That is an example of me doing something for the end goal and not the journey, i dont enjoy pug raiding or raiding in general but i do it for a specific goal in mind. And because of this, i dont run my mouth about making changes to pve so that its more comfortable for players like me because i know that i am not part of the majority.

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In his post he was not just talking about edited by moderation, i decided to respond to some of the other stuff in his post because i dont really have alot to say about edited by moderation. It sucks obviously but its always been like that, at the absolute top % of players only metaclasses are being played, nothing you can really do about it.

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I mean it s just to frustrating to see 25/26 Keys in LFG that are taking Protpaladins, SPs, rogues, Enhs, with 50 keys intime instead of taking other class with 150-200+ intime. Just take a look on prot palas in ladder - they swapped to this class in the middle of season, most of them are 3350+ and have done only 50-100 intime. They are recieving invites in keys that they are 99% going to rip due to lack of expereince and knowledges about some micro mechanics or due to not understanding how to play with classes they see in the group. They are getting invites jsut because top team players are playing on these classes.

Other Classes that are not in this “artificially made Meta” are playing on their classes ALWAYS (there are a lot of players like this) and can bring much more experience then metarerollers and the chance that the key will be timed is much higher, cause they know that they have to perform very good - geetting invites on non meta class takes hours. Metareroller knows that if they missplay they will get another invite in 5 seconds after he applies. They are just ripping keys one by one, that they are aktually not ready at all to play, not giving any chance to players that are spaming this keylevel every week trying to finally time it.

I m pretty sure we need other IO system. A system that could and should reward players that are playing EVERY week, on the same class since season has started.
We need to be rewarded for our “struggles” and we need to be more competitive in LFG VS Metarerollers.

Giving 1-2 Points extra for every dungeon that player has retimed every week (once, per dungeon) can correlate this situation a bit. At the end of the season when all will get full gear, players that have played EVERY week and gathered Much more epxerience will have about 300 pts more then some metarerollers that are pushing only in pushweeks with same friends and will get invites most likely and IO Score will show exact experience of the player.
This will going to separate PUGz experienced players (they are much much better) from Metarerollers that are playing in the same setup and teams as well - not understanding how to play with other classes and what kind of routs should be chosen in PUGz but still applying to key levels they have no idea how to play and just ripping it again and again.

I v stoped to play due do this Situation. It s just so disgusting to see how unfair the IO system is and how easily can this problem solved but nothing is happening - it s so unfair to see overpowered Meta tanks/healers/dps and undertuned “others”. And they are not changing it - nothing is happening. They are trying to balance classes since TBC, not understanding that they need to change Gameplay and Players Approach and Mindset to others. I m playing on VDH in not my meta seasons on very high keys and i m struggling getting knowledges and playing around some bad designed situations that are not suitable for my class due to overtuned damage or badly designed talenttrees or whatever else.
But I m always coming to a conclusion - that every class is playable. Every. Even on very high keys. But we are just not desirable even if we play A LOT - cause meta exists. Metarerollers exist. They are taking our place in LFG and in the end they are very stoping PUGz Progress.

1 Like
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This is genuinely one of the worst ideas concerning mythic+ I’ve ever seen.

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Agree. If you do not have friends or a team, the current system is pretty flawed: people are quitting M+ for real.

  1. People should not be leaving without a penalty. People are failing and they are the only one failing in the group, yet, they are the one to leave the group first, wasting time of other players in the group, and depleting the keyholder’s key without any courtesy.

  2. It is hard to find a group. If the criteria are M+ rating and iLvl, people are always looking for players with much higher M+ rating and ilvl than them, making you find groups much harder, even though you match leader.

Well tonight I signed up for many +16-17 groups with my 2.3k score for like an hour, could not find a group, then decided to make my own group with my +18 Temple of Jade Serpent key. Everything was okay during the run till 3rd boss, where tank FAILED and DIED twice before leaving the group. He was the only one failing, yet, he was the one to leave the group: not only key depletion, it was timewasting, overwhelming but the worst part is it was EXPECTED. Because people won’t think twice before leaving the group if they fail or they think the key will fail as there is no penalty waiting for them. This system is pretty far from optimal, wasting PuG players’ time.

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I think it s fair for players on non meta classes that are playing the whole season, every week. PUGz keys are way too different to TEAMs Runs. In Team ur press same buttones, do same positioning, same taktiks. In PUGz it s always not the same. U need to be very versatile and very flexible for everything that is happening right now, that can happen in 5 seconds or will happe in next pull. Experience in PUGz, on my personal opinion, is much better then experience in Team

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Exactly mate, it’s a rough system for pugging. Then there is the fact when you do keys +20 you don’t get IO score for depleting, so as soon it seems like a dead key everyone is out. Then you just sit with the same key at a lower level which very well can be depleted yet again in a dungeon like Temple.

1 Like
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Yea the system overall is pretty trash. Participation is way down, cant even fill my own +18 Nokhud key as no healer or tank applies and thats over 60+ min queue time. Why do I pay 13€ for this again? For a boring zone with few rares and a bad ring after 4 months? Jeesh. Iterate on your core systems properly or introduce new better ways to progress that are in smaller groups (visions) or solo with reward structures. Kinda sick of this M+ meta bs