Mythic+, Present and Future: Ideas and Suggestions

[Isthisabard-quelthalas]

But have you tried frying an orange like a chicken nugget?

[Isthisabard-quelthalas]

What about a remade Torghast?

[Amonet-ravencrest]

No ty. All these one size fits all Solo-but-you-can-do-them-in-grouo challenges suck, and the reason is scalling. Blizzard cannot scale for tanks, healers and dps and they cannot scale for Solo vs Group. Their best iterrations of this were proving grounds and mage tower, both of which offered different challenges for the different roles.

[Blackbird-hyjal]

This thread is not a “take the whole deal or leave it”. I understand your point on matchmaking but if you ask me, the only thing that should fix most of the M+ problems are the Key deplete system.

All other subject are here more like for discussion and open debate. You should’nt stop reading just becasue you disagree, but thank you for your input

[Venomz-bladefist]

Community is the problem and you can’t fix that.

[Uda-uldum]

@Blackbird-hyjal

This thread is not a “take the whole deal or leave it”. I understand your point on matchmaking but if you ask me, the only thing that should fix most of the M+ problems are the Key deplete system.

All other subject are here more like for discussion and open debate. You should’nt stop reading just becasue you disagree, but thank you for your input

Deplete is only a bummer in keys above a +12. And I get that. Homework keys are an absolute nightmare and super un-fun to play.

And on paper, I agree to simply get rid of Deplete system in keys above a +12. But I would like to have an educated opinion on this system because I know what would happen if you implement something like that.

What would happen is that nobody would play lower key levels once you timed them. Which means: Right now, late in the season NOBODY would be doing +13s. Everyone that used to do +13s has gone up by now. And everyone doing +12 right now are just doing it to farm crests and never had the intention of pushing beyond that to begin with.

And that is a problem if ALL the “key pushing” levels are sandwitched into 1 key level (say +17/+18) with nobody else playing before that.

Unfortunately we dont have that data. Only Blizzard does. And what I would WISH is that blizzard is more transparent with their data. In order for us to have a more educated opinion and not just guesses.

@Blackbird-hyjal

should fix most of the M+ problems

This is what would REALLY fix many problems:

• More rewards. And per-spec. Not overall to encourage off-meta play.
• To stop focusing so much on Raid Spec balance. And do more, and more consistent balance tuning to prevent the class balance to be come stale.
• Fix Delve itemization to stop making low key levels trivial.
• Make Myth track gearing deterministic. With the 6 tokens from the vault increase the tier of 1 piece of your choice, such that a ful Myth track toon would take at a minimum 3.5 months (assuming you dont mythic raid).
• Take the L with tanks and simply do the changes they need to do. Inmortal tanks. To promote more tank play.
• Nerf Healer CDs to the ground or remove them, reduce the burstyness of the damage, and make the limiting factor of keys DPS instead of HPS. To promote more healer play.
• Normalize (not homogenize) raid buffs and utility to allow more comp diversity.
• Remove changes done to spell quew of mobs.

Those things would really help. The no-deplete… on paper yes. But I leave an “*” just in case.

Matchmaking… that would do nothing, unless you plan was to kill and delete M+ as a game mode. Then yes, it would achieve that.

[Blackbird-hyjal]

@Uda-uldum

More rewards. And per-spec. Not overall to encourage off-meta play.

Talked about that in my original post

@Uda-uldum

To stop focusing so much on Raid Spec balance. And do more, and more consistent balance tuning to prevent the class balance to be come stale.

Balancing of the game has always been from a raid perspective with some minor M+ adjustement, i’m pretty sure it will keep that way. Maybe part of the solution would be a different balance system for M+ like we have for PvP.

@Uda-uldum

Fix Delve itemization to stop making low key levels trivial.

I talked about that in the introduction. I’ve no idea why you are talking about delves for M+, this could go forever and talk about “best in slot gear” from raids too.

@Uda-uldum

Take the L with tanks and simply do the changes they need to do. Inmortal tanks. To promote more tank play.

I didn’t quite get that but if you asking for tanks to be immortal, bad idea. Everything player related should not be touched. Only the general M+ mechanics

@Uda-uldum

Nerf Healer CDs to the ground or remove them, reduce the burstyness of the damage, and make the limiting factor of keys DPS instead of HPS. To promote more healer play.

Same thing, don’t touch anything difficulty related.

@Uda-uldum

Normalize (not homogenize) raid buffs and utility to allow more comp diversity.

This has been adressed too. By making bloodlsut and battle rez M+ tool, you unlock 2 potential slots on the 5.

@Uda-uldum

Remove changes done to spell quew of mobs.

This is again difficulty related, this is not the subject here

@Uda-uldum

Matchmaking… that would do nothing, unless you plan was to kill and delete M+ as a game mode. Then yes, it would achieve that.

Maybe, maybe it will. you have custom grouping for raid and matchmaking too, and it works together fine

[Blankpaper-the-venture-co]

good post +1, but you wont get any valuable feedback here. the chatbots here cant think.

you can do feedback ingame within the help option of the menu.

[Uda-uldum]

@Blackbird-hyjal

I talked about that in the introduction. I’ve no idea why you are talking about delves for M+, this could go forever and talk about “best in slot gear” from raids too.

Raids are a problem in high tier gear. Delves are a problem in low tier gear. Because there are overlaps.

@Blackbird-hyjal

I didn’t quite get that but if you asking for tanks to be immortal, bad idea. Everything player related should not be touched. Only the general M+ mechanics

When tanks were inmortal there was no tank shortage. Tank shortage == longer quews. We want less quews.

@Blackbird-hyjal

Same thing, don’t touch anything difficulty related.

When damage was not so bursty then healers were not so stressed. Healer shortage == longer quews. We want less quews.

@Blackbird-hyjal

This has been adressed too. By making bloodlsut and battle rez M+ tool, you unlock 2 potential slots on the 5.

Forget BL and BR. Those are inconsequential.

Stacking raid buffs implies 10% (or more) performance. And some of those buffs are so unique they should be given equivalent performance to all other specs.

For example: Chaos Brand from DH AND mistic touch from monks should BOTH give 3% Damage. Not specifically magical/phisical.

For example: Mages and Warriors should BOTH give 3% main stat. Not just Intelect/AP.

For example: PI should be turned to BL. Or BL to PI.

For example: MS and gate should be turned into a Shroud. And vice-versa.

Things like that…

@Blackbird-hyjal

Maybe, maybe it will. you have custom grouping for raid and matchmaking too, and it works together fine

Works fine on what? LFR level of difficulty? Normal Dungeons?

Matchmaking is the only real fix for the M+ problem

I’m not here to whine, I just want to lay out my case for why matchmaking is the only long term solution to the current state of M+. It’s been transforming into something most players can’t interact with unless they’re already part of the club. M+ isn’t accessible content. It’s completely built around premade group elitism. So far all blizzards attempts to fix the experience has layered on more friction for the average player. First i want to start off with LFG finder doesn’t work like it’s in…

Go ahead… knock yourself out. You got 3000+ posts to read.

[Blackbird-hyjal]

@Uda-uldum

When damage was not so bursty then healers were not so stressed. Healer shortage == longer quews. We want less quews.

I don’t know what is your vision or your goal for M+, but since it’s an infinite scaling you cannot handle the problem by nerfing the damage, it will come back at some point. The whole purpose of the thing is to have an unlimted challenge.

The solution for your queue time should be logistic focused and not your personnal feeling about progression. We are oding fine in high keys for example and the only thing slowing us down is not the damage but the deplete.

[Uda-uldum]

@Blackbird-hyjal

I don’t know what is your vision or your goal for M+, but since it’s an infinite scaling you cannot handle the problem by nerfing the damage, it will come back at some point. The whole purpose of the thing is to have an unlimted challenge.

FIRST: Infinitely scalable system

OK. Every extra key level is +10% damage AND +10% HP of mobs.

So. What comes first? Damage becomes so big you get 1-shot. OR… HP becomes so huge that DDs cant damage enough to finish the key on time.

Both can be possible. And NO. Damage dosent need to be the limiting factor.

I never said to nerf damage. You could say that each key level is +10% damage AND +20% HP of mobs. What then?

Currently, top keys are being done with like 5min to go on the timer. What do you think?

SECOND: Nerfing Damage…

This is what I said:

@Blackbird-hyjal

@Uda-uldum

Nerf Healer CDs to the ground or remove them, reduce the burstyness of the damage, and make the limiting factor of keys DPS instead of HPS. To promote more healer play.

Same thing, don’t touch anything difficulty related.

I said NERF healers. CDs specifically. Which would be the equivalent to BUFFING damage.

But why CDs? And why would nerfing healer CDs have anything to do with bursty damage?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzXVdPEIdbY

This guy explains it properly.

Its not the damage things do. Its when and how fast you receive it. So for example, 10M damage in 1s followed by 20s of nothing at all is not the same as 10M damage spread out in 20s. Or 5M damage every 10s… ect…

And currently, we get hit by 10M things in 1s BECAUSE healer CDs are simply so OP. Because if we pop a CD we CAN heal 10M per person (total of 50M) in 1s. But, in exchange, it means that outside CD windows healers suck and people die.

So healers have 30 buttons to press. And they only matter when any one of our 4 CDs is active.

[Blackbird-hyjal]

@Blankpaper-the-venture-co

good post +1, but you wont get any valuable feedback here. the chatbots here cant think.

you can do feedback ingame within the help option of the menu.

Thanks, will check that out

[Uda-uldum]

@Blackbird-hyjal

@Blankpaper-the-venture-co

good post +1, but you wont get any valuable feedback here. the chatbots here cant think.

you can do feedback ingame within the help option of the menu.

Thanks, will check that out

In the forums you won’t get anyone that agrees with you.

And that should not be a problem. Unless validation is all you wanted to begin with.

This is a place to debate. Which implies people will disagree with you. Blizzard feedback is just fire and forget into a black box… They will still do whatever they want.

[Amonet-ravencrest]

@Blackbird-hyjal

I understand your point on matchmaking but if you ask me, the only thing that should fix most of the M+ problems are the Key deplete system.

Just add charges that protect from depletion.

[Isthisabard-quelthalas]

Fair enough

[Blackbird-hyjal]

@Uda-uldum

This is a place to debate. Which implies people will disagree with you. Blizzard feedback is just fire and forget into a black box… They will still do whatever they want.

I can do both