Mythic+ problems from 2500 rio non-meta class

I’ve reached 2500 Rio and don’t know what to do next. I only started playing WoW seriously in TWW, though I had some experience in 2020, but that’s it. I want to describe my experience as more of a beginner and share what I don’t like. To clarify, I got almost 2500 Rio playing a Paladin tank, which is currently far from meta and incredibly weak, but the journey I had to go through was awful. I find the game and specifically Mythic+ very engaging, so I want to provide feedback in hopes of some improvement in the future.

1. Group Finder

I’ve already seen many threads and discussions on this topic, but I still want to add my thoughts. Yes, the system is terrible. It’s extremely harsh on players who didn’t start progressing quickly from the beginning, especially if they’re playing a non-meta class. There’s constant Rio inflation, and if you’re an average player, there’s always a dozen candidates better than you. This means there’s no point in picking you, even if you’ve completed the required key in time. This forced me to switch from DPS to Tank, which I don’t regret, as it turned out to be exciting, but even on a non-meta tank, I suffer because people are waiting for someone more “appealing” than me. Sometimes, I’m not even invited to a +10 key that I’ve already completed because they’ve picked a Warrior or Druid tank instead. I end up spending a lot of time looking for a group, which feels like a complete waste of time, and then, after a small mistake, the entire group is ready to press the “Leave Group” button.

I’ve seen many responses in other threads like “push your own key,” but there’s no logic to that. If everyone starts their own key, no one will be able to assemble a group. Plus, at the start of my journey, I had no idea who to pick and who not to. I tried picking people intuitively, but after my key was downgraded three times in a row, I realized that wasn’t a viable approach. And if you need a specific dungeon, and usually there are several, you can only get into one if you’re really lucky.

Suggestion: Create a proper group finder, auto-matching, or similar systems. These have already been invented in literally every game.

2. Key System

Why do we need specific keys at specific levels? Why can’t I just, like in raids or delves, choose what I need and run it? There may be an obvious answer, but to me, it seems like an unnecessary obstacle. It feels like an artificial barrier in an already challenging activity.

Keys also downgrade and reduce their level, which is an inexplicable mechanic to me. Let me share an example from my experience. I have completed dungeon at +9, and I had a +10 key for the same dungeon to increase rio. I put together a good group, and we were doing fine. Then one of the DPS got bored because I wasn’t pulling five packs at once like Warriors or Druids usually do, but instead pulled more carefully. He independently pulled extra packs, the whole group wiped because I couldn’t take aggro in a second, and then he left. Now I have a +9 key for a dungeon I don’t need at all. If I spend time completing it, I’ll just get another +10. In moments like these, my motivation to play drops to zero. I’m doing everything right, someone else leaves, but my key is the one that’s downgraded. Sorry, but this makes no sense at all.

Suggestion: Completely remove keys, remove key downgrades, introduce penalties for premature exits, or increase rewards for completing a dungeon not in time. Any of these would significantly improve player behavior.

3. Loot

I’m an adult, with a family and a job. I can find time for a couple of keys, but raiding 3 times a week for hours, making hundreds of pulls on difficult bosses, is unrealistic for me. At the same time, I have no chance of getting the same loot as those who can raid (excluding the weekly rewards, but that’s too slow). Again, I wonder, why is that? In my opinion, doing high-level keys is harder than raiding, so why is there a drop limitation in dungeons, and why is it so low—613 item level in a +10 key, while I struggle to tank at 621 item level? I’m basically fully geared, all I need now is to farm crests, but the loot itself makes no sense. Once I upgrade all my gear to the max level, I’ll still be behind those who have been raiding and getting the best gear all this time.

Suggestion: Open access to top-level loot in high keys. It can be limited, for example, 1-2 pieces per week, so it doesn’t give a huge advantage over raiding.

2 Likes

What are you even worried about, prot pal is getting insane buffs in upcoming patch. Warrior and bear are not much better than paladin at all. Paladin has the highest dps of all tanks already.

“Oh your class is getting a buff, that therefore invalidates all other valid criticism of existing systems” - Coopsmonk

3 Likes

Nah, just all tanks currently are pretty damn strong.

This season is especially punishing to mistakes. And if you have reached 2500 rio, you know how horrendous some people can be. You even added a post about key depletion.

Do you REALLY want zero control about who goes into your group ? REALLY ??

I want control. I want to be able to decide who comes into MY key.

Why would it improve player behavior ? How about this : No depletion implies that 1 death on the first pull and the person leaves. Sound better ?

How about more rewards for untiming a key. Why would you time a key then ? If you like that sort of gameplay go do raids.

I agree. I want this.

I don’t wanna be rude. I mean, I want to be, as those “push your own key” people deserve every single insult they get, but I also don’t want to deal with lovely Blizzard moderators. So, here is my two cents about this beautiful take of “push your own key” people.

It is like they are playing a different game under the same “World of Warcraft” title.

My key today dropped 4 levels down, just because of leavers. “My key”, “my own”, “the key that I push”. I am punished because a poptard triggered on something he/she doesn’t approve. It’s always the same old story, you know, healer is bad or dps is low etc. etc. their excuse can be anything, true or false doesn’t matter. Anything can trigger these low form of life. What happens when above mentioned scene happens? Your key is screwed and they can immediately q up for someone else’s key, and ruin it as well. No punishment for leavers, AT ALL.

Side Note: Depleted keys are not that important to me. I am angry because I can’t even complete those keys as someone raging out and deciding to quit. Even I am not listing my keys as beat timer, so…

Pushing your key has never been the answer of seriously critical M+ problems. It is just an illusion created by boot lickers, just a work-around they make you think it works. People with pre-made groups can underestimate these problems as they are usually not exposed to it but the problems are there and getting worse every season.

“Push your own key” is the worst piece of manure advice you can get from someone. If someone tell you that, offer your gratitude for their useless suggestion and move on.

1 Like

Your suggestion is nonsensical.

In one sentence you’re writing: “raiding 3 times a week for hours, making hundreds of pulls on difficult bosses, is unrealistic for me”

In another sentence you’re writing: “doing high-level keys is harder than raiding”

Even personal organisation required for high-level raiding adds to the difficulty. And from raid-leader PoV the difficulty of managing a guild is overwhelming.

So either accept that raiding is harder than M+ or just do the “easy raids” and get your gear.

M+ already is much easier way to obtain gear compared to raiding. Adding infinite mythic level gear to M+ will just kill mythic raids.

The proper way to address this issue is to separate M+ and raid gear like they did with PvP.

Yeah SO ? What are you expecting ? To time every key, to have every run go perfect and smooth ? It has happend to all of us.

You are giving us 1 very punctual case to prove a general point.

I get your frustration and please rant. This season is a tough season. But dont extrapolate. Its a mistake.

STOP. Breathe… and think about what you are saying…

So. What other alternatives do you propose ? Joining someone’s key ? Is THAT the way to do it ?

Let that sink in for a minute… Joining… SOMEONE’S… key (that they posted, they pushed, and they organized)…

1 Like

Not neceserelly.

There are 2 better options than a complete divorde, which are better than what we have now.

  • OPTION A : The 6 tokens you can opt to in the Vault, allow 6 of those to upgrade 1 existing peice of gear from Heroic to Mythic.

In practice its this : You do 8 +10. You have 3 Myth trak gear options and none of them are good. So you take the 6 tokens and use it to upgrade 1 hero track item. If you do keys lower than +10 then you get some tokens to upgrade Champion gear to Hero gear.

Same thing for raiders by the way. If you dont like anything from the vault you can always upgrade one of your items.

You would get 1 guaranteed upgrade per week. Making the gearing process a minimum of 3.5 months (14 slots at 1/week). And Mythic Raiders would simply get there sooner, depending on Raid drops.

  • OPTION B : A “soft divorce”. Instead of divorcing everything, you instead give M+ players a weapon and 2 trinkets with stats and effects and its own progression. These items are only usable in M+, and to upgrade them you need currency aquired ONLY in M+.
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Don’t invite poptards then.

See, people like you only follow half of the instructions / advice and then get “triggered” when it doesn’t work.

When you have good runs add people to your friends list. That way you build up a network of like minded similar skilled people to do keys with. “Run your own key” is part of a range of measures that are about taking some control over variables to minimise the risk that bad stuff happens.

“Hurr durr I ran my own key and there was an idiot (that i invited in it!!!) therefore your advice is bad”. C’mon.

i think prot warr has gotten significantly worse with the target cap of 5 its been given

but back on topic i don’t think there’s much to worry about after you get all 10s in time as there’s nothing after that unless ur a score chaser

1 Like

You comprehend so little…

I have clearly stated that my keys were ruined because of leavers, and leaving comes with no penalty. Please show me where I have indicated that I expect to time every key. I will be waiting.

I beg to differ, it is just you assume things I haven’t said at all and make an argument out of it.

Umm,

  • add repressive punishments for leaving the keys?
  • introduce something like a behavioral level for M+? So maybe we can forsee what should we expect from a person before we invite them?

there are many logical solutions to those issues, however, “push your own key” has never been an answer it will never be. it is just a stupid work-around.

1 Like

your key was 99% dead already before someone left.
they leave because they think the key is dead, which often 1 major is enough in a 10

yes, but isn’t it a problem? (unless you present your key as a beat timer)

I mean, it is disrespectful to the rest of the group. It is easier for healers and tanks to find pug groups, but not as easy for DPS. Imagine a DPS getting rejected for an hour, finally landing him/herself in a group, tank leaves after a wipe. Not everyone feels like a key is all about timing it. It is the main goal but there are other possibilities.

One person leaves and 4 remaining members of the groups are forced to live with it, and there is no punishment for this behaviour at all. That’s so stupid.

‘‘playing a Paladin tank, which is currently far from meta and incredibly weak’’ oh how times have changed, now it is rank 1 tank desired by all pugs :smiley:

it is disrespectful to mean if you only do 800k dps and not hit a single dispel.
dont expect me to carry you.

if people play like garbage, i will leave.easy

How do we know you do everything perfectly and are not garbage yourself?

Everyone can be garbage to another person in any sense of the gameplay. Wow, players and their empty-tin-can egos. It will never change.

1 Like

you are basickly done.

alts in m+ are dead

pushing requires mythic radi guild

just unsub and go play somethign else

there are worlds between being garbage and playing perfectly.
how i know a dps is garbage?
stands in every frontal, swirly and dies to every boss several times while doing 500k dps.
yea so hard to spot if someone is garbage.

why i think i play decently in my key levels? because i have pretty much a 100% success rate when i choose my keys. so at least i could say that i dont kill keys, right?

it is really not hard to spot terrible players. i dont expect players to play perfectly but at least do dps so the boss fight doesnt take 10 mins…

Depends on the key level. Everything after +10 is just for score and it’s normal to quit if the key is not intime.

Ever pushed title keys in a pug? I had to run everbloom +28 14 times as an off meta spec just to time it.

If we are talking about keys +10 and lower: yeah, just don’t leave guys. Atleast finish the run for loot (not directed at you).