I’ll take your word for it. Have never pugged m+ at any level.
How can people blame the game for not timing a +4, when others are two chesting 11s? Between 4 and 11 you have 2 new affixes, one of which really makes any mistake more punishing, and the other one increasing the effort to time it(adding hp to trash/boss surely affects how fast you can do the key).
And to feel better about themselves, they call those people no lifers. Such a great mentality. I have guildies who work from 8AM to 6 PM, log in at 7PM, play for 2 hours, then go and put their 3 kids to sleep. The only time they actually play more than 2 hours are the weekends. And they still manage to do 11s. Is this what you call a no lifer? Why? Because he has the screen opened and knows how to read his talents, and instead of crying 1h/day on forums, watches 5 minutes guides? Doesn’t seem to be a game problem, but a player problem. Everybody say that 4-5s are hard. It’s not the game that makes them hard, it’s the players. There are players that have close to no idea what they are doing, but still they would like the best gear available in game.
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What game are you playing?
cause in my keys most of the time people don’t care about their gameplay at all 
They always get hit by something and die to random stuff
this is bad for the game cause people will never learn what you are describing
What you are describing is only tru for people that likes to min max their gameplay
because thats statisticaly through .
you dont time +11s now by not tryharding very very hard.
which is not a bad thing- but dont pretend its otherwise.
that depends what blizzard long time goal is
if their goal is to tell people - you are bad at game go do dvelves thats super easy rewarding content for oyu not m+ ?
then this season is doing very very good job .
Total dps for whole dungeon? Or pack dps? 7Boss dps?
Ive been in groups on 6-7 groups with ppl doing 700-900k total dps and we been finished it with more time over even.
So a 4 key would def work with less dps.
Its hilarious, i look in the group finder and there’s loads of groups with 1,2 or 3 dps sat in them, some +8s with 2200 raider io and no tanks or healers joining.
Then there’s people with around 800 raider IO score trying to run +8 +9s and no one joining.
Then you get keys and as soon as the timer ends, you get someone telling everyone else not to die, apparently determined to throw the key at the start.
Tryharding is not the same as nolifing. No lifing means playing 14-16 hours/day, tryharding means sweating a bit. And also, I didn’t say 11s are not hard. I said that nobody should blame the game for a 4 being hard. 4s are not hard, they were never hard, they will never be hard. 4s can be done by playing any class at 50% performance. If someone plays them under that, it’s not the game’s fault. This community somehow needs to realize that is not always the game, and most of the times is actually the player. I know most of them have an ego 3 times bigger than their skill, and it’s hard for them to admit they are really bad at the game, but that doesn’t mean the game has to be changed for them.
Game doesn’t tell people they’re bad. Game tells people that they need to learn something a bit (mechanics, rotation, saves management, etc.) and they will succeed.
So you’re soloing +4? No tank or healer? Just you alone because it’s so easy?
These things are not related at all. You can’t clear relevant LFR raid solo too, but that doesn’t mean it’s hard.
See? that’s why blizzard doesn’t really take in consideration people’s feedback, and only care to listen about top players. Seems like average players have no idea about the differences between group content and solo content.
But to at least answer a more logical version of your question: at this point in time, I could probably go in a +4 with only the tank and the healer, and still have a chance to time that key.
So you couldn’t.
But we both already knew that.
There are plenty tanks applying though. They just get declined because they want tank with 2200 score and such tank applies to +10s not to 8s 
Supply is just not there with many people CBA to run alts in m+ .
Realisticaly if you dont plan to push there is 0 reason to do m+ at all when youvvsn just chill in dvelves on alts
The reason inexperienced healers and tanks seem to be holding back low keys is because DPS doesn’t realize they also need to progress these keys and make a contribution other than shooting stuff at HP bars.
At this point I’ve changed my mind. Blizzard should implement a queue for M+ that allows anyone to sign up for any key level, but always matches them with 4 people who have the same M+ score as they and also selected that key level.
This would be 100% fair and nobody could blame blizz for the dumpster fire it causes.
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It would be cool to have ranked M+ queue , not gonna lie.
We would have different complains tho, people would still rage in forums.
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will there be more dungeon nerfs coming with the patch tomorrow in the US? I think the longer you wait the more people will drop out of m+ all together. The feel on the forums and in game for M+ atm isn’t good. I don’t actually mind it. But I’m the minority.
Move mythic vault to 9. Move mythic vault to 9. Move mythic vault to 9. Move mythic vault to 9. Move mythic vault to 9. Move mythic vault to 9.
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