Mythic raid ID lockout

[Meristu-azjolnerub (Meristu)]

Short version: Why?

Long version:
Why does this still exist and why arent mythic raid(s) now fully PUG-able?
I understand those first 100 kills and keeping it realm locked in the beginning, but I think in same way the LFR unlocks, after some time mythic raids should be accessible to everyone.

Some realm uniqueness or identity doesnt exist anymore, everything goes guild or pug, so why does this block exists, why cant it work like normal ID, where you can disband and then join any other existing raid during the week.

[Bukachu-ravencrest]

From blizzards perspective it helps keeping mythic that one special content you do with people you bond with. so you cant just leave after first wipe and similar things. and actually lowkey have to work with group you choose to do it with.

[Jaelaana-draenor (Jaelaana)]

What a new exciting fresh thought provoking thread.
You want to raid mythic commit to a team ans set times simple not everything needs to be accessed ny everyone 24/7.

[Bukachu-ravencrest]

@Jaelaana-draenor

What a new exciting fresh thought provoking thread.
You want to raid mythic commit to a team ans set times simple not everything needs to be accessed ny everyone 24/7.

personally I think, there’s nothing wrong with removing this odd lockout from mythic.
nothing lost, people who are in guilds yadayada can stay there and raid in team environment and people who are into pugs will be able to pug more freely.

[Jaelaana-draenor (Jaelaana)]

It will be the nail in the coffin for guilds who have since WoD onwards been dealt blow after blow .
No sorry mythic shouldnt be pugged or unlocked imho.
You want top gear and top kills earn it by playing guild mates and commit to a shecdule.
There are 3 other modes already more then enough for casuals.
Lock outs serve a good purpose to stop boost teams for 1 .

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

Mythic is currently the only raiding lockout that ties raiders to their guilds.

I like that our raiders will be raiding with us and that when we get a new boss down the full haul of loot (after sacrificing goats to RNGods) will be there for the team to benefit from. Any unwanted items are offered up for reroll and dished out by the loot council (different guilds have different systems). Worst case scenario we d/e the drops and have more crystals to make enchants for raiders. Either way it’s for the benefit of the whole raiding team.

I don’t know if they intend to change it in the future but so far every mythic raid has stayed locked to one ID even if it’s become legacy.

[Bukachu-ravencrest]

@Jaelaana-draenor

It will be the nail in the coffin for guilds who have since WoD onwards been dealt blow after blow .
No sorry mythic shouldnt be pugged or unlocked imho.

yeah but, how does it prevent guilds from doing what they’re doing?
aside from that, mythic is in fact puggable, we’re just talking about lockouts to give players more freedom at how they want to experience the game.

@Jaelaana-draenor

You want top gear and top kills earn it by playing guild mates and commit to a shecdule.

sure you can do it, I can do it, and if some “X” person cant do it then let him do it his way? I see no issues with it.
maybe they have a weird work schedule and they’re free some weeks at some times and busy next week in same times?
Like, what’s the issue with someone doing taloc mother and fetid with one group and then doing vectis with another group?

you know I respect you a lot but going against player freedom, while you were saying how players should have a freedom of choice few months ago, arent quite fitting.

@Punyelf-draenor

I like that our raiders will be raiding with us and that when we get a new boss down the full haul of loot (after sacrificing goats to RNGods) will be there for the team to benefit from. Any unwanted items are offered up for reroll and dished out by the loot council (different guilds have different systems). Worst case scenario we d/e the drops and have more crystals to make enchants for raiders. Either way it’s for the benefit of the whole raiding team.

and you can keep doing that.

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

@Bukachu-ravencrest

and you can keep doing that.

Once it opens up like heroic then people will pug and guilds lose the collective loot drops. So no you can’t.

It will also make the drops from Mythic more common. They are current locked to one drop and one reroll per boss per week.

[Bukachu-ravencrest]

@Punyelf-draenor

Once it opens up like heroic then people will pug and guilds lose the collective loot drops. So no you can’t.

you can always set up guild rules. restrict members from doing any content without a guild group if you think it harms your guild.
also, I mean, if someone joins a guild, and instead of doing content with the guild they prefer to go and PUG it, what’s the point of them being in the guild in the first place?
Doing content with the guild is more fun, more enjoyable, more friendly, and more , aside from that pugging content is muuuuch more harder.
so you can pretty much keep doing what you’re doing. while other people will have more choice of how they choose to play and experience the game.

@Punyelf-draenor

It will also make the drops from Mythic more common

how so?

@Punyelf-draenor

They are current locked to one drop and one reroll per boss per week.

confused here. need some elaboration

[Jaelaana-draenor (Jaelaana)]

I do belive in choice and you have 4 choices already in raiding.
If you choose mythic then you understand what comes with it and abide by its settings.
If players can not commit to 2 or 3 nights per week for 3 hours then they shouldnt expect to raid top tier.
If lock outs removed it would kill guilds.
Players would just pug willy nilly.
Gear would go outside of guilds and yourself have asked for ML you cant have both.
Saves would be sold for stupid money .
Boosts would get worse .
Im sorry but i strongly disagree with you.
If you want mythic commit and earn it.

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

@Bukachu-ravencrest

you can always set up guild rules. restrict members from doing any content without a guild group if you think it harms your guild.

It’s a ballache to police, it was the same issue previously with ML runs. If you were a heroic raiding guild and some of your raiders had pugged then it reduced the loot drops for the whole group. Guild raiding is a team effort.

@Bukachu-ravencrest

how so?

@Bukachu-ravencrest

confused here. need some elaboration

Currently you can only go to Mythic Taloc (for example) once and reroll once. You can’t go back with a pug group, kill it again and reroll again.

When I needed the Vari trinket I would pug Heroic Vari as many times as I had reroll tokens. So I would pug that boss several times in one day until I ran out of seals. You can’t multi farm a mythic boss because you can only kill them once a week.

[Bukachu-ravencrest]

@Jaelaana-draenor

I do belive in choice and you have 4 choices already in raiding.

True. you can choose how hard content you want to face.

@Jaelaana-draenor

If you choose mythic then you understand what comes with it and abide by its settings.

we’re talking about change of those settings so saying, lets abide to those setting isnt a right approach. it kills the conversation, because yes you’re forced to abide to those settings but my idea is to add more options without removing anything.

@Jaelaana-draenor

If lock outs removed it would kill guilds.

that simply means that pugging is a better option than having a guild, and honestly the bigger issue there would be the actual guild. because if someone prefers pugging content with randoms over doing it with guild, with people they are supposed to like, then I have bad news.

@Jaelaana-draenor

Players would just pug willy nilly.

if they can, let them, why not?

@Jaelaana-draenor

Gear would go outside of guilds

again. guilds can have rules and prevent players from doing content without a guild group.

@Jaelaana-draenor

yourself have asked for ML you cant have both.

yeah because I support options, I believe that if my choice of life doesnt harm yours, I shouldnt be forced into certain lifestyle, or playstyle in this case.
ML was an option, it wasnt enforced. it was an option, every guild, every player could choose if they wanted that option or not. why it was good/why it wasnt is a talk for another day, but if blizzard would remove PL my reaction would be exactly the same. the point being, ones existence didnt harm the existence of the other one.

@Jaelaana-draenor

Saves would be sold for stupid money .

need more elaboration here as well. how can you sell the save? detailed answer please <3 Im sleepy so need a lot of words

@Jaelaana-draenor

If you want mythic commit and earn it.

that’s what im doing, im raiding with guild, and im 6/8 currently. pretty casual but yeah.

@Punyelf-draenor

Guild raiding is a team effort.

exactly, and every member should try to succeed, achieve that team goal together. if doing “x” harms the guild, I cant see why’d any of its members would do the “x”. or why’d a guild keep that type of people around.

@Punyelf-draenor

Currently you can only go to Mythic Taloc (for example) once and reroll once. You can’t go back with a pug group, kill it again and reroll again.

wait… can you re-roll twice on heroic boss or something? I know they dont drop loot twice from experience but not sure about re-rolls.

@Punyelf-draenor

When I needed the Vari trinket I would pug Heroic Vari as many times as I had reroll tokens. So I would pug that boss several times in one day until I ran out of seals. You can’t multi farm a mythic boss because you can only kill them once a week.

oh yeah this answered it, well, I think they can just change how re-rolls work too while at it. make everything 1 drop 1 re-roll.
or simply keep mythic bosses 1 re-roll each week. works either way.

[Meristu-azjolnerub (Meristu)]

Well you see, I wouldnt really mind.

But I was just thinking about it today.

Some random thoughts.
You cant even imagine how many people dont know this and dont understand how it works and how many time today I heard: “Yeah I can go only mother, I already killed Tal with different group”
But this aside.

I have many alts, many classes, on many different realms on both sides.
Keeping them all active in guild and being ready at every raid time, some being same, is impossible for me.
And thats the only thing currently keeping me playing.

Problem is that every guild capable of clearing the 8/8 already had it on realm only mythic. Majority of guilds and players now are barely reaching zul, with kektis and kekvoz being major descrubizators its usually 2/8 or 3/8.
Again I dont mind that my guildless characters cant get into 8/8 mythic.

But today I loged on one of my alts, and I saw my guild already doing mythic. They said almost full raid was on at same time so they went, but they were stuck on mama.
So me being the merciful good soul (read f*cking nerd playing this stupid game 14 years) I went with them and tried to help (still dont have my voice back)
After some hour of wiping we killed mama, got loot and went happily home, I made few jokes that they owe me dagger from zul so we keep on pushing, and since we werent capable of any other boss we simply disbanded.

And now I am stuck, even if were capable of creating second raid, I wouldnt be able to join them because I already killed 1 boss and got locked into basically non-existing raid group.
I could get taloc kill with one of the hundred pugs in LFG or make my own raid, but I cant because I already wasted my 2/8 ticket.
Whole week.
Single boss.

99,99999999% of stuff in wow no longer requires guild or closed community. Consider that bad or good thats not the point right now. Only this little thing is stuck in the past.
I understand what you mean. Community is part of this game. Guild is why I loved vanilla wow, and its reason why I couldnt care less about classic coming back, because its not bringing back people.

But the way it is now, guild is just expanded friend list for me, just a pre-prepared pug. I dont think it would hurt the game that much.
When you look right now at the situation, pugs and smaller guilds cant often clear even those 2 bosses. And wasting ID because people leave after 2 wipes and getting blocked for whole week again, is kinda bummer.

PS: Yeah we had one ID back then too, but we also had HC dungeons once a day and now you can grind basically raid level gear whole day long …

(I am playing DkS3 between this, so if some parts dont make sense its perfectly ok xD )

[Jaelaana-draenor (Jaelaana)]

There alts like you said they dont need to be mythic raiding.
I know some top guilds require 5 classes and lots of specs covered but you dont have to do that.
It was your choice to join at mother nobody forced you and it was nice of you to help but you accepted your choice.
Buka with saves being sold i mean a guild could do 7/8 mythic and the sale the save to many other guilds/players so they could jump right to G’huun without putting in any work to get there.
Trade would be even worse with spam.

[Mysticdude-ravencrest (Mysticdude)]

It is purely to make the content last longer. Blizzards response to this has previously been, that it was to protect the end content from being abused for farming, selling runs etc.
I feel that at anytime it is opened up for x-realm and group finder, then the lockout should also be relaxed. The two contradict the reasons behind each.
But, like I said. It’s all down to time factors.

[Tokaine-tarren-mill (Tokaine)]

It should have a lockout so it doesn’t become another aspect of the aidsfest that is the pugging world.

Go away

[Aylish-emerald-dream (Aylish)]

@Jaelaana-draenor

If lock outs removed it would kill guilds.
Players would just pug willy nilly.

Why? Heroic guilds hasn’t died because of PuG’ing. Why do you think mythic guilds would, if it had the same lockout system as heroic?