Mythic raid lockout should be changed to be same as normal and heroic, the content is hard by itself and trying to pug, or semi-pug a group to this content is frustrating and almost impossible.
Mythic isn’t for pugs it’s suppose to be end game.
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Ye but if you kill first boss with pug, which is super easy and the group disband you are punished for 1 week. Pugs often doing 1-4 bosses, but in case of bad RnG you might end with 1 in group that aim for 4 
Keep in mind that people join group for 1 specific item, and if it didn’t drop they just leave after boss. Why rest should be punished for that?
After 1st boss kill you are totally not able to inv more people, because people won’t join already started runs and waste ID for non-looted boss
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It’ll kill all guilds, so won’t happen. Who need a guild when you can progress with pugs faster.
Zero evidence, whatsoever, for that.
According to you, people who run 16+ mythic keystones never play with each other more than once.
According to me, most people who want to finish +10 keys doing it with random players rather than looking for a guild to do so.
That is correct. If you think that timing a +10 is anywhere close to Mythic Ansurek, then I have bad news for you.
Most mythic guilds don’t realistically aim for Mythic Ansurek. There are 5193 guilds killed Rasha’nan and 1144 killed Ansurek. 4000 guilds will disband.
Sure they will. Also, the price of Petrol will increase by 40% and Sea level will raise by 2 meters.
I don’t understand the reasoning behind “it’s not supposed to be for pugs” or “it’s end game content”.
So as a guy who doesn’t have time for a set schedule for raiding or wanting a flexible raiding time I should not play this content? Thats just stupid.
Why even make an effort make content which 90% of players dont get to experience just because of little things like raid lockout, I am not saying make the content easier, just make it more accessible for all of us to enjoy.
I did mythic for the first time yesterday and we had a good group (semi-guild) tbh we coulda killed 3 bosses atleast with what we have, but 1 person left after a wipe and suddenly we can’t invite people cuz no one wants to ruin their lock, and everyone left.
Its a really bad system that doesn’t allow new players to experience mythic or people who came in late cuz no one wants to invite a guy with 0 experience because for the lockout
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The lockout is like that to combat boosting. I personally don’t mind it, but I wouldn’t be against the heroic version.
If players can defeat bosses without being in a guild, using voice chat, having a shared history, or even communicating in a text channel, then why should this content be limited to guilds?
A pug group won’t clear an entire Mythic raid just by using LFG, but it would make sense for the first few easier bosses to be more accessible. Forcing the same 20 people to stay together just because the main challenge is pugs leaving, rather than the actual boss mechanics, feels unnecessary.
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They don’t invite the guy without experience because he has no experience. Not because of the lockout system. Heroic clear runs prove this.
The lockout system is problematic, but don’t use it as a scapegoat for literally everything.
No actually u’ll get raid invites without having experience in HC, I do it sometimes as a raid leader cuz some bosses it really doesn’t matter, and if he failed horribly I can replace him and replace any leavers easily.
In mythic if u invite someone without experience you’re locked in with him for the whole run, and when people eventually leave, ur lockout is dead.
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You don’t invite that guy because you know he is deadweight. As mentioned: heroic proves that. The average heroic pug writes something like „fresh curved“. You aren’t the norm, cool. I don’t invite anyone below 8/8 heroic in hc clear runs. Preferably 4/8m to make it a smooth run. Lockout hardly matters, if it matters at all.
Most people have 8/8 heroic, 635+ ilvl, 4/8 mythic, 2700 score, but has totally no idea how to play that game, because they get carried somehow by their group.
I owned a guild for over 12 years that cleared raids on hardest dificulty several times, but I’m far for saying that all of the raiders deserved that kills based on their playstyle efficiency.
So no, you could be locked in with guys with 4/8M that don’t know any simple mechanics on boss or they would leave after kill because they were only farming one speficic item and your weekly raid lockout is gone since you won’t invite replacement for non-fresh raid on mythic.
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Are we really starting to discuss with „could“?
Fact is: qualified people reduce the chance that unexpected scenarios happen. That’s why you don’t invite deadweight for smooth runs. To put it simply: I won’t invite ANYONE that isn’t 8/8hc for hc runs and I won’t invite anyone that isn’t 4/8m for the first 4 mythic bosses. It reduces that chance tremendously.
I still welcome the heroic lockout for mythic, so I can farm the first few bosses for a weekly vault while we are progressing the later bosses.
I know many people who don’t even know where the raid entrance is, let alone the boss mechanics (they end up with logs at 1-10%, often dying on the first mechanic), but they have 4/8 mythic because they were used in the guild to fill empty slots. They have about 638 item level, so they have a 100% chance of getting an invite to your raid, but I guarantee that if you gather several of them in a raid at once, you simply won’t be able to kill more than 1 boss After the easy first boss, you won’t kick them out because you won’t find replacements for them from PUG, and then what? Aren’t you sorry about wasting your ID? I usually do it with my main in the guild anyway, but I often go for the first few mythic bosses with alts, and I see how tragic the situation is.
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I really couldn’t care less about my lockout. If gear is the only part of mythic raiding that people want, maybe join a mythic raid guild which reclears every week or join a community.
But no, in WoW the game has to change in order to please braindeads, because getting better at the game is a big nono. The mythic lockout isn’t the only example. Challengers peril is the single best example for it. But that is a different topic.
Edit: spelling
I see that discussing with you is pointless, since you’ve reduced everything to the idea that WoW should be adapted for brain-dead players. If you think there’s sense in maintaining the lockout (of course, you didn’t provide any argument for it besides synonyms for “elitism only”).
For me, it’s brain-dead to maintain the difficulty of mythic raids through lockouts. I have 5 alts and I don’t intend to join 5 different communities or guilds with them to raid at different hours. I have 2-3 hours of free time at different times of a day and I’d like to clear a few easy bosses that pugs do, but usually I can’t manage it because trolls join the raids who leave after 1-2 bosses or have no clue about tactics.
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