Narrative Direction - When Was Warcraft's Lore, Story, Characters or Tone At Its Best?

I’ve noticed there’s a kind’ve sentiment among posters on this realm forum, especially when it comes to criticising new story or lore material. This may just be my perspective, but I feel like each new revelation is met with sustainedly negative critique.

Perhaps it’s just my own perspective, but the new lore and story decisions do not seem popular. To provide specific examples: Not the mystery of the First Ones, not Xal’Atath’s labyrinthine schemes, not the Earthen and their ordered society, nor the resolutions of plot threads.

What I personally find interesting is that I personally can’t remember WoW’s main narrative ever being openly praised much at all in past expansion sets, either. The only possible exception being the Landfall patch of Mists of Pandaria.

There’s a clearly a narrative high-point that all this new material is being compared to, so, because of this, I wished to ask the thread’s title, and with an additional mixture of courtesy and curiosity, inquire:

  1. When was Warcraft’s ‘vibe’ (narrative design, art design, writing/worldbuilding) at its best for you?
  2. Did this have anything to do with your own life, circumstances or perspective at the time?
  3. What developmental techniques or context do you think enabled Blizzard to create this style and sensibility?
  4. What elements of modern WoW fail to live up to their old example?
  5. If Blizzard were to make a sustained effort to achieve this again, or learn the right lessons from how they managed it before, what would you suggest?

This will take a long while to type down…
Just TL:DR - Old Blizzard is better than Today’s Blizzard and its about how the storytelling and the worldbuilding suffered under making player character able to amass more and more power. That while shifting the focus of the experience away from an optional story about local threats to a more restrictive experience where you have to play the story and global threats to match the PC’s powerlevel. And certain mistakes Blizzard has made over the last years that ruins their worldbuilding.

The vibe was best during Vanilla. There wasnt ‘a’ story but there were zone-wide stories that sometimes encompassed more than one zone. Like the Defias which you had to deal with in Elwynn, Westfall and Redridge. Or the Centaurs which you had as a threat in the Barrens and Thousand Needles. Or the storyline around Teldrassils corruption which, if I remember correctly, also brought you across Teldrassil and Darkshore to solve. The dwarves also had their attacks from the Dark Irons.
Of course these were only the “starting experiences” and larger spanning storylines didnt really happen anymore once you reached the mid-game.

In scope the stories told were relatively small and less about “Big bad evil will kill everyone if we dont stop them”. Not that there werent big bad evil guys, but these arrived late to the party and didnt really influence the entirety of the game experience. You worked yourself up from local threats to bigger ones, and the progression to that was slow and tied to your powerlevel.

The Worldbuilding was also relatively clear. Of course there were some weird spots here and there, but generally it was solid because it booted most of its lore from the Warcraft 3-Era and expanded upon it. You had a clear distinction between good and evil, good magic vs. evil magic. With both receiving a very different treatment. As seen with the distinction between human priests and warlocks: While priests could operate in the open and have their cathedral, warlocks were hidden in their small coven which they could only operate because they bribed local investigators. Their teachings after all were still forbidden, at least within human territories.

The overall focus was on the player characters. You was the protagonist in that game, everyone lives around you, doing their things. But you were the one taking up a bounty for Hogger with your friends because he was a major threat and the alliance needed cannonfodder to deal with it. You were the main part on why the Defias fell apart and your influence brought you some recognition from the higher-ups.

I played vanilla as a kid and played all classic versions so far. While the gameplay going upwards in expansions became objectively better, the setting suffered from the expansions and how Blizz handled them, and especially, the player character.
So no, I dont think my own life circumstances influenced my opinion on the matter.

As for the vanilla-way: They had pretty much free reign to do things. WoW started as experiment and was developed alongside Warcraft 3, so teams working on both projects could communicate with one another about the worldbuilding and setting.
Though I think the biggest thing speaking for Blizzard back in the day was that they werent driven by the greed they began developing during TBC and that they cared for their world alot more than they do now.

As for the last 15 years of WoW, maybe even more:
I think Blizzard have written themselves into a trap which they cant really get out of.
By allowing the player characters to take down big bad evil guys like Arthas, Kel’Thuzad, Illidan, Kael’thas etc. they became trapped in that kind of power fantasy and they couldnt just take a step back. It would have been a total tonal shift between “Hey, you were part of the team killing THE LICH KING, now go back to some barn in the middle of nowhere, kill 5 boars”.
They tried to make these bridges between expansions, but it never really worked well.
That forced Blizzards hands to ramp up the power and importance of the player character that somehow has to be matched with the world and the story.
I see a clear line between killing characters like Illidan and us going against Xallytoes in everso expanding levels of threats. While the storytelling and worldbuilding went from a living, breathing world you were just a part of towards “This is your playground to save from the bullies”.

Worldbuilding and Storytelling.
The story is nowadays forced down everyones throat, and its not a really good story.
Warcrafts Storytelling feels like the MCU: It started kinda good, but with each movie coming out the story became more and more slop to sell to the kids who dont know any better.
That together with big tropes like “This is just someone’s PoV” ruined the entire worldbuilding because there is absolutely no certainty in anything anymore.

Where back in the day Void and Fel was inherently corruptive and that you will eventually succumb to its madness, now Blizz could now make a statement of “Uhm, you didnt have the full picture and there is just one part of the void and fel being evil, there is actually also good void and fel” and it wouldnt break lore because fel/void being evil is just someones PoV and it didnt picture the entirety.
As I mentioned it in another thread: With that kind of worldbuilding you can basically write everything, doesnt matter how nonsensical it is. And that inherently makes for bad worldbuilding.

Worldbuilding needs rules under which the universe works. Blizzard effectively removed all rules from their world by making that choice.

Same goes with the story as well. Back in vanilla you didnt have to learn about the story, it wasnt pushed down your throat. You could just play and enjoy your time and you werent constrained to play through a story to experience the game. It was alot more free-form. Right now I play retail and stick to cata because I do loremaster. And the shift in how you play, how the stories are being told and how your character fits into all of this is a gigantic difference compared to everything that came with and after WoD.
Dare I say it: Cataclysm storywriting is better than anything that we have right now, even with the sometimes really annoying pop culture references.

However, ever since WoD and maybe even before, you have to play the story and you have to be the most important part of it because without you as the mary sue of the setting nobody would get stuff done. While your character also doesnt have anything to say but also is the guy every important lore character relies upon.
And from that Blizzard never truly moved on from, which is a shame.

One thing I would absolutely suggest:
Make the player characters retire after an expansion. And update the old zones with each new expansion. Doesnt have to be much, can be as little as changing some questlines to reflect the recent changes.
Like they slowly rebuild Stormwind over the course of two expansions, beginning with cata and ending with WoD.

And retiring in form like that: You have played Legion, you have that powerful arsenal of weapons. And you defeated the Legion.
Now, in the wake of the fourth war, new champions have to rise to fight against the other faction.
That way you can keep the powerlevels consistent, maybe even adding some fun stuff into it like “Hey, that paladin who gave me a quest is my paladin I played in Legion!”.
Of course without deleting that “retired” character, just restrict them from accessing the new content until that new content isnt current expansion anymore.

Its not opimal, sure. And it would be absolutely unpopular. But I think that, if Blizz wants to write a story that everyone has to experience, they need to fix their approach with powerlevels and the tonal shift that always occurs. It has been consistently failing with the borrowed power-systems, it has been failing in all the other ways before and after. Or does it make sense that your character who killed Fyrakk, a juiced-up roidraging ancient protodragon, sudddenly struggles taking down that young spiderqueen and her consorts? Or does it make sense that your character who took down the burning legion and their masters now has to deal with petty crimes in Kul Tiras?

However what I would prefer much more is that they return back to the vanilla fomula. Back to the roots of smaller threats, the world ending ones in the end of the expansion and not as center-piece, alot less focus on a story and retconning certain mistakes they have done, like the aforementioned “Its just someone’s PoV”-trope.
Just to pull more examples on how I would have done things if it were up to me:

Instead of going to Northrend to fight against the Scourge the alliance and horde sends out expeditions. And on Northrend they notice a scourge presence after having wrongfully assumed these undead have been contained. By the end of Warcraft 3 we knew that Arthas wasnt dead, but the rest of the world aside Illidan and his forces didnt know anything about it.
With that premise also retconning the Death Knight-intro, making them playable at some point within the expansion in a patch that revealed the Scourges continued existence.

Or with WoD:
Instead of having the Iron Horde invade through the dark portal and everything being about fighting the Iron Horde and their leaders, maybe have your characters be part of an accident that brought them to the Draenor of old but in a changed state due to time-shenanigans? And that you discover on Draenor that the timeline has changed due to that accident which resulted into the formation of the Iron Horde, with you being the one experiencing its beginning, not when they were at full force. And that at best after you made some levels in the old world.

Things like that I think would have made for a better experience overall.
At first retiring old powerful characters instead of stripping the power from them. And shifting the story towards a more progression-based experience where everything starts small and eventually becomes big, alongside the player characters who grow in power.

… and damn, that took a while.
I hope I could get my points across. While I heavily dislike Today’s Blizzard, I’m passionate about that world and it pains my authors heart to see what they do with it.

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Each expansion sort of chipped away at the original thing players liked until there was a breaking point (Shadowlands / Dragonflight). As a orthodox I think the tone was best during Vanilla to WoTLK in conjunction with the RPG’s, but even Wrath had it’s issues. If you look at the old art, the models, scenery and design choices are darker. These are thing most people latch onto when they think of Warcraft.

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I don’t think it was ever perfect, but playing through Classic really made me understand why people support the old WoW so much (up to WotLK) - world building in quests was much better. I think TWW is trying to bring a lot of these elements back and so I thoroughly enjoyed anything Arathi and Earthen related as a result. They just seem to have forgotten for a very long time that the story and world-building are what makes a game special and not its raids, or cheap shock value moments (and boy did we have a lot of those, looking at you SL).

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I think Vanilla to Wrath were the golden years. Back when the faction leaders were mostly just capital city window dressing who would maybe show up a couple of times in an expansion, and we weren’t inundated with a cast of “main characters” the storyline is constantly being told through. I hate the main cast. The game tells me that my player character is very important now, but oddly enough, I have never felt that they matter less.

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Tbc to pandaria were the best imo.

I think vanilla to wrath -heavily- benefited from the wc3 affection, it 3Dd a world that people had fallen in love with over three rts games and it very much follows the bones of what wc3 lays down.

Cata to panda have a clear and engaging story.

Then wow falls on its face and had never really recovered in terms on storytelling.

Tww & df are improvements and I don’t agree with a lot of the, frankly, whining that surrounds them (which always comes across as bad blood over shadowlands and blizzards ooc issues more than anything).
That said it’s far from the old days and always will be - the vanilla to wrath era is dead, wow has new writers, new goals and lives in an entirely different world now.

I also think people forget why it moved forward, for all the moaning we all do now, it existed back then too.
Tbc will always be my favourite expac but story wise? It’s awful. Mechanically? If I tried it sans nostalgia, with how I am now and games and experiences I have? I’d drop it in a heartbeat and not look back.
So yeah those eras were ‘better’ but I also enjoy that wow has changed and im ok with how it is now. Will always grumble and meme but it’s not as bad as people say.

mists of pandaria NEXT THREAD

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I think a lot of what made the setting so iconic, particularly in regards to the exaggerated art style and original tone has been lost over time.

This is a setting that has some very silly stuff at times, though it also has some really dark elements as well. You can see shades of that in the present day but a lot of elements in the story are overly sanitised and do not lend any weight to what happened in the past.

The Forsaken and Gilneans coming together as tentative friends, for example, doesn’t really line up with the sheer amount of atrocities inflicted upon the Gilneans at the behest of the Forsaken. Furthermore, the Gilneans have strong ties to the Night Elves who also suffered horrifically at the behest of the Forsaken.

To say nothing of the fact that the Forsaken are reanimated walking corpses, an atrocity against the natural order and prone to deciding to act just like the very same Scourge that defiled much of Azeroth.

The modern writing team seem terrified of letting there be any lasting, meaningful grudges between factions or races, even if there’s more than enough reason for things to not be buttery smooth and overly idealistic.

I just wanted justice for Liam Greymane. :pouting_cat:

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I feel like early WoW, specifically Vanilla was more akin to the Elder Scrolls worlds, in a sense that you’re just a random character existing in a vast world - that world doesn’t revolve around you and you’re free to go wherever, to face whatever different regional threats both big and small. Sure, you absolutely could eventually take on some big enemies but the whole experience wasn’t tied to them or you as the savior of everything.

The idea was exploring the world of Warcraft and getting to participate in its countless stories as an individual.

Now we have one big focus and one big bad that everything in that expansion stems from. Even if you get to do something simple like saving someone’s sheep, it’ll almost certainly somehow be connected to the big bad that indirectly caused the sheep to run amock or it’s just a meaningless filler quest to extend the duration of the questline. For example we had to play with those orphans in this expansion, but that wasn’t just a thing that you come across as a traveler, it’s there as part of the main quest line and has the sole purpose of showing the personality of a major character.

The story is very linear, it lost that aspect of freedom of exploration and choice. Instead you’re led by the hand in the one and only possible direction there is.

What I think expansions should be doing is creating new environments and situations, but then let you freely explore this new setting as you see fit. Even if it’s just about new zones and old ones remain forgotten, the world should feel alive and like you’re stepping into it with no predetermined path. I don’t like following a strict script. Somehow we’re in this big open world but simultaneously we’re also playing this linear missions/levels based game. It’s a paradox, it just doesn’t work.

Besides that… I think that Blizzard has a serious problem with writing the story.

Warcraft the RTS created an awesome story that was adored. Then they made WoW that let us explore that awesome world on a larger scale as individuals with our friends. TBC and WotLK were about bringing us back to those amazing characters and settings that we already loved, riding high on that sense of nostalgia. After that it all gradually went down hill, they needed to create new stories and they frankly seem to not be good at it anymore.

Are all the WC writers gone? Are they forced to write differently by the company? Did they themselves change over the years? I don’t know what it is but they’re not doing as good anymore. Had WC RTS come out in an alternative universe at the same years but it wasn’t about Arthas the traitor prince, Thrall the warrior shaman and everything that goes with it but was instead about kind dragons, void creatures, compassionate orcs, this entirely different world that we have now - I don’t think it would’ve done anywhere as well as it did.

Last but not least, the game now is a whole lot less “metal”. It is so damn mellow and almost childish that I find myself rolling my eyes constantly. I don’t want a message about unity, tolerance and morals of the story. I don’t need to be bombarded with heartwarming family moments, I don’t like always doing the good thing nor insisting that the good must always prevail over the evil, that virtually every bad person/group needs to just be misguided/misunderstood. I feel like I’m watching a Disney movie with underlying messages. That is NOT what Warcraft is, but now it’s forcefully being turned into that. It’s lame.

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(If anyone bothers to read this long post, you have my love.)

I don’t like to be hyperbolic and all and I hate discussing things like this because it makes me feel like one of those r/ClassicWoW posters that hates retail for all manner of silly reasons, but as someone that only really plays Classic nowadays I find Vanilla to be my favourite vibes wise, for all its faults. There is definitely a hell of a lot I love about the period after Vanilla all the way up until Battle for Azeroth though.

I won’t repeat all the points already made but one for me personally is something I don’t really know how to describe but I’ll call it Respectful Parody vs Caricature. Gilneas is my main example for this.

TO ME (perhaps I’m just a fool that misinterpreted it all), Gilneas was very much a clear parody of Victorian fiction and the London of that period: Jekyll and Hyde and dozens of other novels. Fancy men wielding rapiers, firing cannons, speaking in over-the-top accents. It was all very silly, but it feels to me like very fitting and respectful parody. You’re clearly supposed to find it amusing and get a good laugh out of the whole thing, but it doesn’t necessarily break your immersion and the humour comes from how seriously it takes itself.

I think the visual element of this is key. It’s all very drab, dark, foreboding colours and vicious looking monsters. I have dozens and dozens of complaints about how they’ve handled the Gilnean characters, identity, etc but my BIGGEST complaint of all is an entirely aesthetic choice. It’s such a silly thing for me to get caught up on, but the Gilnean heritage armour might be one of the biggest gripes I’ve had with Blizzard. The bulkiness, brightness, and gaudiness of it all takes amusing parody to an exaggerated caricature; the only thing the the heritage armour and the original Gilnean aesthetics have in common are “it’s fancy and old fashioned looking!”.

Someone calm me down if I’m overreacting here but this annoyed me so much. I understand Blizzard wants to evolve their art style, but seeing that armour being worn by NPCs when I was already not enjoying the most recent Gilneas questline actually had my eye twitching.

I won’t go too much into detail but a lot of this, imo, applies to Blizzard’s depiction of Kul-Tiras. I adore certain aspects of the Kul-Tiran architecture but then the fact half their buildings look like boats (get it?! because they like to sail!) or octopi is completely lost on me. I know it’s supposed to make them visually distinct and is supposed to be charming, but it’s just silly in an unamusing way.

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(I originally had a much, much longer post typed up but quickly realised it read entirely like ‘old man yells at cloud’ and quietly deleted most of it.)

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  1. In my opinion, it was Legion.
    I have always been a fan of the heroic high-fantasy high-magical parts of WoW more than anything, the whole “adventurers taking care of grounded things” is one of the reasons why I thought Vanilla/Classic is extremely boring - I want to explore the universe I’m playing in.
    Legion delivered that. It brought a satisfying close to the Burning Legion arc that had been building since Warcraft, all while expanding a lot more on the cosmic side of World of Warcraft.
    And importantly, class identity. This was the highlight of Legion in my opinion. It of course has a lot of bad to say too, like Priest campaign being terrible, racial identities related to classes being a bit too standardized to fit “the order”. But that was the a great step in developing solid class identity.

  1. Not really. I just had come back to WoW after not having played since start of Cataclysm.

  1. I don’t think I know remotely enough on techniques to speak accurately there.

  1. Ending the faction war - This is the worst part of modern WoW and killing the identity of the game. Mind you, this wasn’t an important part of Legion but it was there as a permeating tone of “We are working together but I don’t like you, and I’d absolutely slit your throat if we didn’t have this bigger issue to deal with”. I want the “war” in “Warcraft” to be also against my fellow players, not just against forgettable NPC enemies, and all I’m getting now is being told we should kiss and forget all the harm that ever happened.
    We absolutely need to return to the “cold war/distrust between factions” atleast.

What is also missing now is an actual sense of continuity. Starting with 8.2 (8.1 was glorious and totally following on the total war setup), a lot of WoW’s stories have started to feel completely disjointed and that the devs have just been throwing what they felt like at the moment, without much regard to the overarching expansion theme.
Shadowlands’ story doesn’t need more said considering how disliked it is, Dragonflight’s story was forgettable and every questline felt more “Adventure of the day” than inscribed in something solid.
And The War Within follows this same scheme considering how Undermine, while an amazing patch by every means, feels so out of the loop with the original expac base.

And obviously, for the Void’s sake, finally kill that permeating Alliance bias. It just feels unpleasant to play Horde in WoW currently, and Blizzard cares so little for it that Undermine, which should absolutely be a Horde-patch, barely felt like it had proper Horde presence. And I do believe a Blizzard employee actually went on the record to say “Well, The War Within is actually an Alliance story lol”, which shows you the depth of the problem.
You have two factions, time to cater to them a bit more equally !


  1. I think I actually answered it though 4 already !
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Vanilla - Wotlk.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the vast majority of Cataclysm’s questing experience and especially MoP and WoD. But…

Vanilla - Wotlk game treated the players from the beginning as maggots, and at the end of leveling and endgame as a “tough, but not that tough”.

This was showcased in both the lore and the gameplay.

You were not a champion of Horde/Alliance. You were an adventurer, helping their respective factions. You looked up to the faction leaders, not the otyer way around.

The world was hostile and threathening to you from the get-go. Elite quests were actual elite quests that were, depending on your spec, barely soloable or flat out unsoloable. Even regular mobs gave you pause and you often died if you pulled too many mobs at the same time.

This all changes in Cataclysm. Slowly but surely you get referred to as the champion or somehow special in the world, elite world quests are now soloable aside from a few exceptions and regular mobs start dying as soon as you look at them in a mildly peeved way.

Arguably MoP and Cata and WoD had better questing than TBC did for example, but the narrative direction and setting was much more healthy during Vanilla - Wotlk era.

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This was really hard to settle on, but I think it was (parts of) Mists of Pandaria.

MoP had a healthy dose of the horrors of war, which the vague world-ending threat that every expansion has to have organically tied into. I liked that it was our fault that we messed things up in Pandaria. There was also a good balance of the Alliance and Horde being horrible to one another and moments of levity.

I was in the “Pandas bad!” camp because the friends that got me into the game at the time were, but I think the MoP intro single handedly convinced me to play one.

During Warcraft II