I thought about that too, but what if the Maw will end up being something different at the end of this expansion?
Then we’ll find a different hell for Sylvanas and Nathanos, or obliterate their souls.
On a side note though, it’s very unlikely that the maw will be something different at the end of the expansion given that content for the entire expansion is tied to it and will likely still be available after Shadowlands.
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Broken isles are still under Legion assault even if in the story we defeated them, it’s just for gameplay purposes. Story wise we could change the Maw but it will still be there for people to play the content.
We will see how it goes but yeah, I feel like good stuff are coming for nelves. We derailed the topic a bit here, sorry OP.
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I think there is yet time.
Objectively speaking, Nathanos did about the same sketchy stuff as many other general during this war.
If he indeed didn’t know about Sylvanas ulterior plans, and is shown as having certain qualms regarding some of the nasty stuff (disagreeing with Sira in using children, wanting to avoid torturing prisoners, regretting being forced to kill his cousin, or those few peeks that made him doubt Teldrassil or shooting down the Desolate Council), I think he still had some room to turn back.
Obviously it wouldn’t be as easy as others, but we did pardon guys like Illidan, the Dark Iron, and many others who also did some bad stuff.
He could also have his “redeeming” death. Like Nazgrim.
This has nothing to do with satisfaction. If we were to argue from that angle, my most “satisfactory” end would’ve included impaling Jainas head on a pike for Rastakhan and the Sunreavers.
And yet, even as Horde, the story forces me to be sympathetic towards her.
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Sparing Sira shows that Tyrande isn’t consumed by vengeance but it might also points to Sira not being beyond redemption.
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Very true.
Although Siras redemption seems rather far fetched given how one dimensional the author painted her. She was basically turned into some cruel Terminator that just wanted to kill, and kill, and kill.
Agree but we don’t know what happens in the Maw. They could go with using torture and twisting to alter someone, something similar to Dereks case but successful. Given time Sira might calm down and reconsider some things.
What are the factors that decide if a person is worth being redeemed? Their deeds? The circumstances? It’s all very subjective.
I didn’t quite understand why Sylvanas deserved the Maw after she killed herself? I’m sure you could make a solid case for her redemption at that point. How is Sira any better than that Sylvanas?
I believe a character deserves redemption or damnation if the plot asks for it, nothing more.
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See the post above.
About Sylvanas we don’t know is she went to the Maw because she deserved it or because she died right below the Maw. Jailer or even the Valkyrs could have intercept her soul.
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I believe her soul was snatched to the maw because the jailer saw the opportunity to influence her future for his own agenda.
Ok fair point about Sylvanas, totally forgot about that theory.
Regarding Sira and the other elves loyal to Sylvanas, I don’t think they’re just rabid dogs suffering from severe PTSD. Sure, they’re pissed as hell, but it almost feels like they know something, they’ve seen something. You don’t just rise from the dead and say hail Sylvanas unless you experienced something that has shaken the very core of your existence. Yes, you could argue that seeing their brethren fallen and feeling abandoned did that but I think there’s more to it. Something related to Elune, but that’s another discussion.
My point is I don’t think Sira is going to change loyalties now and if she does get redemption, it won’t be because she regrets what she did, but because the circumstances give her the excuse for what she did and what she is.
The way I read Sira in the novel, made it feel as if she just wanted to kill and kill. To the point she even looked for situations when it wasn’t even necessary.
You have reached a new high (or low) when you make Nathanos of all people go like “Woah, to much”.
Yes but I don’t necessarily agree with how she was presented there and I think it was exaggerated. Or maybe I am looking for reasons now, who knows.
It certainly makes people feel sympathetic towards him. But he is kinda beyond redemption at this point.
He will be loyal to Sylvanas no matter how much she used and betrayed him. It would be a 180 turn in lore and story development for him to question her.
Since Blizzard confirmed Calia won’t be the forsaken leader, and sylvanus left horde, there is always a possibility. But that won’t be coherent or logical for him to be accepted again like that. Voss is the most reasonable candidate so far.
I’m quite sure the aim was indeed to make Nathanos more sympathetic or at least understandable, but I cannot say if it’s meant to be a final act of mercy for his character or to prepare him for the path of redemption. Certainly hoping the latter.
Fully agree.
Everyone has people in their lives they would literally do anything for and unfortunately for Nathanos that one person is the story’s cardboard supervillain, and doing anything for her means doing a lot of evil things.
Agree with that too. Seems like the current course for the horde leadership is to rid it of any and every controversial character. It’s pathetic and boring, but since Blizzard writers know only black or white it’s either that or the next genocidal warchief in an expansion or two…
Funny right?
We were fighting alongside Nathanos against Jaina in Dazar’alor and now we’re forced to fight him and help Jaina again. It’s so much fun to play horde nowadays.
At least Talanji has not forgiven her and still wants her head.
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Talanji saves us from Alliance sycophancy.
I wouldn’t want redemption for Nate after BfA, he made his choices and he turned out to be sore loser in the end for making said choices. If this story is meant to be believeable he should be held accountable for his actions.
In the very book he tried to screw us all over by taking down Bwonsamdi, he didn’t care for forsaken, he didn’t care for Horde, and he didn’t care for afterlife of milions of beings - everiting for his hot waifu.
I just can’t see how exactly he would be redeemed, he cannot return to be among the Horde let alone forsaken. He turned his back on all of them and tried to screw them over additionally.
as Riko would say " ook him in the dooker".
I really want some proper diversity in the council, people with actual agenda that don’t kiss the PC at each ocassion, but not the extreme examples of obnoxiousness like him.
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Combine these with the fact that we know he’s headed to Plaguelands from the book, it’s safe to say this is genuine.
I think this is clear that we will face him and potentially kill him. From his voice lines it looks to me like there’s no redemption in sight, his devotion is as strong as ever.
What exactly has he done wrong apart from being a simp? All the worst stuff is done by Sylvanas. If you say Nathanos is complicit somehow then so is the player character and many other horde leaders who get away Scott free.
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I don’t think he became any kind of sore loser at the end. In all, I don’t think he felt like losing at any moment.
And honestly, the only thing he is guilty of, is being the last one to tear down his blindfold regarding Sylvanas.
Because if we are to measure him by actions alone, both the PC and several other prominent NPCs are currently about as guilty as him (and many have already been pardoned).
So, regardless of personal opinion, if he indeed lacked knowledge regarding Sylvanas plans (as Roux seems to hint), that would still only make him a single step above those that stood by when she burned Teldrassil.
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