Isn’t that my point? Big bad demon. Looks visually sturdy and terrifying. The fantasy and expectation is probably that he’s slow and immobile, but he can take a beating and do a ton of damage if he hits you when he swings his axe.
If the reality is that he’s fragile and barely does any damage, then there’s a design conflict between the player fantasy and the actual ability design.
That’s not good design. Which is the same if you nerf Rain from Above into the ground.
What Blizzard will do in the end is anyone’s guess. I’m just saying I don’t think they will do what the OP suggests, and neither do I think they should.
(Purely from an ability design perspective. Whether certain specs or classes needs nerfs or buffs and what the balance situation is, that’s not something I have a say on.)
Can we also remove hunter healing and shield from pvp too then?? Also remove Feign Death and disengage. Also reduce the following range of pets to 5 yards and introduce a 50% chance to miss when you jump. Make disengage also that it makes the cowardly hunter jump out of the arena forfeiting immediately while wearing a chicken suit!
There is a difference between valuable/useful and totally broken. Fel Lance is often the major damage ability and that with still all the corruption and stuff we currently have.
So Rain from above is an insane def cd vs all kind of melees. But if he becomes immortal vs melees (so comparable with a bubble) and still deal more damage than a ret with wings running and all of that on a CD with 1 minute, its not just valuable/useful, its broken!
So yes, it does work. They would still pick it in order to survive but there is no need that they still deal more damage with it than most classes could ever dream of. 6%+ hp each 1.5 seconds (not sure if it scales with haste) is waaaay too much, thats a minimum of 20k dps while no melee can touch you for like 10 seconds.
RMX player detected. That were actually really really good changes! But we could of course also talk about cd increasements. Kidney to 45 sec cd, Cheap shot to 10 sec cd, Sap to a 10 sec cd, Blind to a 3 min cd. Would you like that more?
Everyone is actually smarter than blizzard right now. They’ve set the bar so low that even the most stupid bloke you can find will be smarter than them. Just look what they’ve done with the game. No IQ, no education, no foresight, no logical thinking, just stupid low iq shyte
Except rain from above maybe, is that supposed to be offensive or defensive ability btw? Slap a 5 min CD on it like a bubble and it will still be OP. Reduce its damage - we will have another dead ability noone uses. Remove it altogether? Blizz will never do that.
Posting random “suggestions” cuz you’re triggered by some other class’s ability is useless.
Like I said, I shall not speak to the current class balance situation. I don’t really comment on that.
I’m just saying that as far as ability design is concerned, then you undermine the intent of the ability if you nerf the damage by 80%. It doesn’t really deliver on the fantasy at that point.
Again, I’ll refrain from making class balance suggestions, but there are other ways than just nerfing the raw damage by x%. You could change the duration, the cooldown, the range, or similar, without crippling the gameplay as much.
I know Blizzard has a mantra of “Don’t balance around mediocrity”, meaning that it’s very easy to put all the numbers into a spreadsheet and make them all the same, but that doesn’t necessarily make for the most fun or engaging game experience. And I think players have a tendency to often suggest changes toward that end. If something sticks out by being too strong or too weak, then conform it! Make it comparable to everything else!
Again, not commenting on actual class balance, but just saying that it’s not necessarily a good idea to nerf everything to the point of being meh.
What? Rain From Above? C’mon people. it’s enough that they jump in the air out of reach. the damage they do should be negligible and just a decoration and addition to fantasy. Think how MM hunter’s main ability Aimed Shot crits for 12k, now transfer that to how much a fantasy element of a defensive 1 min ability should hit for? Exactly. Around 3-4k. Look how smart we are to figure this out on our own. Now imagine what kind of people Blizzard employs that design PvP… Imagine… It’s a dark image. Because that ability is the top hitting ability in a Dh’s kit. It does 40k+ per hit and the cast times are less than a second.
But that is exactly needed. And if you dont speak about the class balance situation and dont wanna comment on that, why are you doing it?
Hes not saying to remove the spell or change it suppose, only to nerf the damage to a level where we can talk about balance.
It would still be an immunity vs melees thats doing some damage but it wouldnt be any longer an incredible def and off ability on a ridiculous cooldown of 1 minute.
I’m trying to say that my perspective is from a point of design, not a point of balance. I know not whether the Arena situation calls for a 10% nerf or a 20% nerf to something. To me those are arbitrary numbers and I don’t really have any informed opinion about that.
But let’s take an example.
A Frostbolt.
I imagine people think of a small projectile of ice that a Mage conjures and shoots at an opponent who takes a small bit of damage and gets slowed because he gets cold.
It’s the simplest form of magic, so a simple visual with a white/blue ice projectile and a slightly chilling soundbite is probably what people have in their mind.
So that’s what Blizzard have made. And it holds true for any game, whether it’s Frostbolt in WoW, in Heroes of the Storm, or in Diablo. It’s the most basic form of frost magic and the damage reflects that.
Then you have Comet Storm.
Immediately the name implies something far bigger. It’s from space! It has to come from the sky and it has to hurt!
The visuals need to be more stunning, the sound more invoking, and the damage has to reflect that you’re throwing more than a mere snowball at someone.
So balance-wise Comet Storm has to be more powerful than Frostbolt, because that’s the fantasy and expectation players have. So the design has to deliver on that.
It’s the same with an ability like Rain from Above.
It’s the Illidan moment. Everyone’s done the Black Temple encounter where he flies up in the sky and starts bombarding the raid. That’s the ability, that’s the fantasy. This is supposed to be the moment where the wings come out and the demonic power within is unleashed. That’s what the visuals and the sound needs to deliver on, and it’s what the gameplay and the raw damage needs to deliver on. Otherwise the ability design falls flat, because it won’t meet the expectation and fantasy the player has for it.
If there are Arena class balance concerns in regards to the ability, then any changes need to take the design intent into account. But an 80% damage nerf is not in line with unleashing the demonic power within. Or rather, it is difficult to convince Blizzard that it is, or that it doesn’t matter.
And that is the issue here. As you should have known by now is, that this ability is an immunity vs melees but also an incredible dmg ability on a very short cooldown.
And even if you nerf the damage by 80% which sounds insane, its still doing noticable damage and the ability would still be very useful, since its a perfect def on such a short cd. Thats why it would be perfectly fine to nerf it by 50-80%.
Keep in mind that most other classes that use an immunity often cant do anything (block, turtle, …) and/or have a lot longer cd on it. Dh is already tanky enough, if they want to keep them such an immunity, nerf at least the damage to an amount where you dont have to find instantly a pillar or have to use a def ability for yourself thats mostly even on a longer cd than his RfA.
And we dont have to talk about examples, there arent any comparable examples out there, which is the major problem of this ability!
I don’t see the issue.
I have commented on the design perspective. I realize how the ability functions versus melee in Arena, but I’m not going to comment on that, and I have said so repeatedly now. You can have that balance discussion and whether the ability is overpowered or not without me. I am merely sneaking in a comment about the design intent of the ability. And if you want to talk to me about that, great. If you want to talk about whether the ability is overpowered and Demon Hunters need to be nerfed, talk to the others instead.
Which is fine, but then dont question the percentage of a nerf people are asking for, if you dont wanna talk about balance! Hes not asking for a design change, just a damage change which wouldnt affect the design at all.
Except Rain from Above is described as a defensive, but it holds equal offensive power.
It’s the kind of design that doesn’t belong in this kind of content. I’m talking Rain from Above, Fists of Fury parry, BoP/DS with no restrictions, Blade Dance etc.
You shouldn’t be covered on all fronts through a single ability.
