The issue is PVP gear now comes in ranks, and the item level it changes to in PVP just seems to be a buff, not a set item level.
It’ll help with PVE players going into PVP, but it won’t solve the issue of fully geared and upgraded honor PVP players being absolutely dunked on by people in conquest gear.
Doesn’t mean that at all.
The overwhelimg amount of pve pieces are awful in pvp??
Why does it matter if its scaled down if nobody uses it?
Perhaps you are supposed to use PVP gear in PVP ?
Crazy idea I know
In the current system u already use pvp gear in pvp. What are u talking about
I can think of exactly 1 pve piece right now thats an actual good upgrade piece in pvp which is the stonelegion cape because of the ilvl difference. And the difference between having it and not is probably less than half a %. lol Every other pve piece is either bad or a sidegrade at best.
YESSSSSSS
I wanted this system back, now make sure the scales are sensible (one rule for honor, one rule for conquest) and we’ll be good.
None of this “imma 2.1 player gonna faceroll dem 1.6 in 2 sec” crap, make your rank correspond to speed of gearing absolutely, but not the power ceiling.
All honour equal, all conquest equal
Rank = speed/conquest cap.
Perfect system. Come on blizz! This will bring me back into pvp if so!
There are multiple aspects to this:
#1 At high rating, there really isn’t much pve gear that can be impactful. For sure, SL made pvp gear good for high rated pvp, that’s a given. However, at low rating, when a pvp geared character has 200-207 ilvl, they still do get steamrolled by m+ or raid geared.
#2 This item looks as if it’s designed for patch 9.1, when the item level from pve across the board will also increase. This means that pvp gear will not be as good in pve as it is in 9.0.x, but it is at least my hope that it will also be the other way around, effectively achieving separation between pve and pvp, as it should be.
#3 At the beginning of the new season, there will be no advantage in pvp by also doing pve. That’s great!
This is assuming when hunting BIS.
A big problem in PvP atm is not the top-end, it’s the bottom end.
At bottom end dude in 197/200 pvp gear will still get spanked by Boostermcjoe who has his castle nath heroics and is getting carried in 2s because they want a shiny weapon.
So yes whilst that castle anth gear may be worse than equivalent ilevel gear from pvp, it isn’t the case that everyone in pvp is facing eachother with equal gear, and where those raiders and mythic+ guys are using pvp to grab an “easy wep” from 1.6/2.1 whatever but stomping the low brackets in their 220+ gear, they won’t be able to do that if a) the pvp gear scales up to their level or b) their gear scales down.
That way to earn the “easy wep” they have to be good enough to play at that bracket in the first place, as it should be. Not ride their gear to cheese the first few brackets entirely.
First off, I agree with you, but shouldn’t he be Boosteemcjoe instead? 
QUite right, he goes by many names.
Boostermcjoe
Boosteemcjoe
Joemcneedsaclappin
Carrie Meharder
Ineida Carrie
Joe “Credit Card” Mcaverage
And so on.
If the issue is gearing for just the unranked/combatant/challanger brackets then theres more elegant solutions than changing the entire gearing system like more ilvl brackets/higher baseline ilvls.
Theres almost no chance that those are the final ilvls.
Pvp itemlevels will increase by 26 just like pve itemlevels will increase by the same amount.
Maybe there are, but considering I haven’t seen a more elegant solution than the WoD system thus far, I’ll be happy with this one.
Probably. The important thing is the system, not the magnitude of a datamined test item, and the system whereby pvp gear has different pve and pvp itemlevels is, in my opinion, by far the best one there is.
in that case
rated bgs might be more fun in 9.1
no pve geared guild premades winning in less than 30 seconds
i know ive seen that in kotmogu twice
Skip to the third type.
Rofl. I’m sorry that was brilliant. Prepoppers and mcdonald rogue especially hahaha. The starting one was pretty spot on as well.
Great for PvE so far.
Let’s hope it’s really closer to the WoD system and the rating requirements for gear get removed as well, so everybody has the exact same conquest gear, no matter what rating they’re playing at.
This is one of the biggest issues PvP has right now imo.
i hope they do this tbh
i had bad groups who didnt bother to do the objectives
and honor leeched?
went from 1607 to 1440 due to many losses
with only my pvp vault weap being 213
and of course if they give us solo queue+wod system that would be perfect
Yes, rating should have rewards like mounts, tabards, titles, mogs etc but nothing that effects performance. This way even if “boosting” happens, it offers those whom encounter the booster a much fairer chance of squaring the odds than at current.
You can’t just “outplay” someone whom is 220+ atm when you’re 200 unless you’re an arena god-in-waiting because they’ll have over 10k more health than you and somewhere up to or over 50% more output than you, and it’s not reasoanble to expect people to have to outplay that in the low brackets to have a chance at progressing atm.
You can do everything right, and the numbers simply don’t allow it unless your opponent is absolute muffinhead. I’m no pro myself, but as said above, i’ve had several games where me and my partner felt we played a mighty good game, we secured the cross-CC we were going for, we popped that burst at the right time and the fact remains that all that happens is we bring the target to near-death only for them to recover, which happens time and time again until attrition eventually kills one of us off. It doesn’t feel good.
Those games atm rest more on your opponent making massive mistakes than you playing the right way because no matter how we pull it, due to our gear, we cannot will more burst out than we’re capable of, so the numbers are set. The only way for it to result in more reward is that the survivor doesn’t recover before we can remount the pressure, but this suggests that our victory in said situation relies upon their lack of play more so than our strength of play.
When squaring against people with equal gear to us, pulling off such a stunt rewards us with a secured kill as the numbers we pull off during the control we exert are enough to get them down or very quickly after. But it’s a struggle when you’re about 6k damage short of securing the kill and your pressure is halted for a few seconds, and you no longer have CC to control the situation.
I mean i’m a Venthyr Hpala, so of all the Hpala builds, I’m running for big burst to support to my DPS in a kill secure when we set the opponent up for it. It’s pretty frustrating when even if we pull off the perfect burst on an isolated opponent from both my partner (WWMonk) and me within Ashen Hallow that it’s simply not enough to get them down because their health it too high, when we have taken all the right precautions to set them up for it and get their healer out-of-action, but they walk away from that moment at just the right amount of health, and boom, their healer can top them up again. Yet this wouldn’t not happen if their gear was equal to ours because they’d be flat on the floor.
I mean we don’t always get it right (the setup, the cross CC) but it’s really annoying that when you do, it still isn’t enough, because there’s nothing to learn in that situation except “get better gear” or “hope your opponent is a moron” which aren’t exactly stuff I immediately start working on to prepare me for the next game.
So I really hope this does go ahead because I feel like a lot of those moment that I felt were going be “the moment” but weren’t, would absolutely have been if the gear were closer, so maybe now i’ll get more immediate feedback in that way on my play. Ie they didn’t go down, I must have done something wrong, what was it?
As it stands, I can do everything right and the win will not come so it’s just a “destined loss” which feels crap.
And I know this is certainly the case because in those games where me and my partner are actually on it, and we notice the opponents have close to our health levels, where we pull off this kind of stuff, we win, and the “moment of burst” we go for is rewarded with a kill. That there is immediate feedback to us both “that was a good play” which helps us learn, which is vital in all forms of game progression. Having your efforts reflect success or failure so you can improve!
If I lose a game I want to be sure it was because I/teammates/both played crap, so I can troubleshoot that. I don’t want it to be down to “failure of mathematical output” because if i’m going solely through pvp (which I was initially) I can’t do jack about that until I actually gain rating in the first place- yet I need to win these kinds of games to get that rating.
Exactly this. As you’ve already stated in another thread while arguing with an unreasonable person - Climbing the ladder in PvP is way easier at the start of the season and becomes frustratingly stupid later on if you’re just getting into it / playing an alt.
I’ve two friends which are multi Gladiators from the most recent seasons and both of them absolutely agree on that matter. PvP gearing right now is stupid. PvP vendors are great but the rating requirements are one of the dumbest things the devs could’ve thought of.
I also think it’s about skill.
In PvE the “middler” has a place, somewhere in the 5-10 key range, or norm/heroic raiding, and there they can stay, and that’s fine. They get to fight content that is just the right amount of hard for them to feel like they’re putting into it, but probably couldn’t go further.
In PvP such middlers have a real issue because leaving the playpen of unranked even has frequent bouts with people whom belong at the top and have gear that comes from there (or boostees whom have the gear but not the skills, but the gear is still an advantage).
Now a top-ender will absolutely have the skills to slam an overgeared boostee whom outgears them into the floor and thus move into the more average rankings where this issue is less prevalent and they’ll “find their place”.
Meanwhile middler boy struggles to make headway, because as it was, their wins in unranked and 1.4 etc were always going to be fairly close because their skill cap is 1.6, so any hint of disadvantage due to ilevel immediatley causes them to drop rating.
So as it stands at the moment, the top end pvpers get the gear they deserve and are capable of, the bottom enders (unraked) get what they deserve and are capable of in the end, but the middlers (people whom will cap somewhere between 1.4 and 1.8) coming into pvp at this point in the season will never likely get the gear they’re truly capable of before the season is over unless they put in an obscene amount of hours or make sure they group with people better than they are to help them secure it.
I think people forget that losses (even before 1.4) tank your rating, and contrary to what people believe, not every pvper has this amazing record of a 90-10 ratio of W/L, a lot of people like the middlers will be a much closer ratio of something like 55/60-45/40 in the low brackets against even odds, which eventually settles them in the middle. You throw overgeared opponents into the mix, their ratio drops massively despite the fact hypothetically they are on average slightly better than the people whom belong in the bracket they’re struggling to break out of.
I hope this is a solution. I played Pvp at the start, but took a break, as did my partner, and then I messed about with some alts, tried pvp again, no go. For me, being able to raise several chars, do pvp and feel like i’m getting something out of it, some gear, some ability to participate would be perfect. I don’t want to feel like I have to be shackled to one character and nolife pvp in the first weeks just to have a chance to get the gear i’m possibly capable of in a fair arena, because I can’t guarantee my play like some people can. Sometimes I just am not in a position to log on for a few days. I think I could probably get 1.6 and maybe just maybe 1.8 in 2s, but i won’t fool myself into thinking i could go higher than that, but it’s a process, its what i think I could be capable of over time, yet currently the situation in SL PvP makes it very hard for me to see that, because part of the requirement of even breaking 1.4 in 2s is “can you beat 220 players every so often” and my reply to that is no, I can’t, not unless they’re an absolute moron. Yet this is reasonably not something you would expect a 1.6 player to be able to do anyway because it’s what separates them from 1.8 and higher.
100% this. This is the core issue.
And the fact that random BGs become unbearable for casual players because 223 guys stomping them.