Good news! Mastery: Deep Wounds is gone and Single-Minded Fury is back in the game.
Bad news.
Everything that was an issue before is still an issue now.
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Deep wounds is not being removed it is being changed to last 12 seconds instead of 6 and increase damage done to target by 9.0% which is nice
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it’s also reduced to 60% of AP instead of 1120%. Every other issue still remains. Arms still has passive Rage-generation only, it has no survivability tools at all. Etc.
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This is a step in the right direction though. We now have a more similar-ish damage build as in MoP: A portion in bleeds, but a larger portion in direct damage.
This change will also likely make mastery once more an overall good stat for arms- Assuming that we get some changes to our rage generation.
The talent changes are actually good too- While I’d still advocate for AM to be made baseline and be given its utility focus back, ravager is being improved significantly which is nice.
It’s not all, but it’s a great start.
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An incredibly short step. Blizzard has done the bare minimum and I’m afraid they’re going to think they’ve done enough and call it a day.
And I advocate for AM being utterly removed. It retroactively makes the Talents Warbreaker and In For the Kill worse by simply existing as their benchmark of performance has to be lowered by whatever AM increases it with.
I made a Frost DK on Alpha and I deliberately went two-hander because I knew it was unfinished and the questing/soloing experience was so much smoother than that of Arms Warrior that it’s too pathetic to be funny.
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I am actually very much ok with the change.
The bleed is scaling with attack power. The mastery affects the increase in damage received.
Ravager is back to replacing Bladestorm and none of the issues other than the Mastery: DW has been solved and I’m hesitant to call this change a fix as I can see it creating some weird interactions with Mastery. Namely that compared to other classes we’re going to see a heavy drop in damage as we level up which will then become an increase in damage that far outstrips any other Class as we gear up in the endgame. This is because Mastery value directly influences how much damage that abilities like MS and Bladestorm do. Meaning that if we have no Mastery their damage will be bad and if we have a lot of Mastery their damage will be good.
Far from making us less gear dependent this change makes us more gear dependent and in the entirely wrong way. I would even go as far as saying that this change makes Arms even more dependent on Mastery in SL than it does Haste in BfA.
I don’t see Ravager replacing Bladestorm anywhere. Source ?
It says very clear on wowhead, look it up it has a topic on recent warrior changes.
I kinda agree Arms still looks painfuly dull to play, ima dropt it for fury.
Blue post that says it does and also in-game testing.
Speaking of the blue post I’m hard pressed to remember a more arrogant dev post ever. I know there’s an element of CYA over it and it still use phrases like, “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it,” and, “we’re happy with it it as it is.”
Show some humility and integrity. Arms is massively broken compared to every other spec in the game. If everyone else were are incapable of soloing hard content as Arms I would have no problems.
“And happy where is it”? Like most players? If that was the truth this Mastery: Deep Wounds would never had been changed and it would have remained as it was out of artistic integrity.
Arms has more severe problems that’ll never be fixed with a few talent changes. People seldom take Ravager or Dreadnought because they underperform compared to AM. They take AM primarely because AM works, whereas Dreadnought only works IF Tactician Procs, and Ravager is fully without effect if the target leaves the AoE. Changing it so that it chases a target is a band-aid solution as it’s still useless if the target outpaces it or there are multiple targets and the targets scamper off in their own seperate direction. You need to chase the other and it decides to follow the main target.
The only way to really fix Ravager is to give it two casts. The first activates it and attaches it to the player, the second detaches it from the player and it then follows the nearest target.
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Although that would fix ravager as an ability slightly i think it enchroaches on breaking the warrior class fantasy. I get why you are displeased with AM being the do or die pick of the talents but i dont think its as egregious of a mistake as Arms just 0 healing or protection. Yeah we might lose a talent but were warriors, were not supposed to be that complicated to begin with.
Deep wounds is kinda fixed, they actually managed to make a change that is similar to what i suggested (enemies becoming “weaker” whilst bleeding) which im happy for. Could it be better? Yes. But it doesnt really need to be changed now (its seems).
Sweeping of the GCD pls.
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That is just bad. It’s funny how everyone was mainly highlighting how great it is that it’s no longer replacing BS. And its back again… Truly is a sad time to be alive
The real issue is AM, as long as AM exist it’ll always be the best choice due to how consistent it and that it makes the talents Warbreaker and In For the Kill perform to the benchmark level.
In some cases, you have to skirt the line of the Spec fantasy in order to make satisfying gameplay choices.
One of the Spec fantasies for Arms is “first in and last out.” The gameplay reality is that if they’re first in they’re the first to die. Another is that they’re more resilient to damage than anyone else (bigger health pool).
Both of those have been sacrificed for gameplay and have effectively broken Arms Warriors as I regularly see players with more health than I and I’m ilvl 475 in Arms.
How both of those could be solved in one swoop that adhered to the Spec fantasy would be to artificially enlarge the health pool of Arms Warriors.
-Vanguard (Arms) (Passive): The warrior gains X% Leech.
By doing it this way Arms can have a larger health pool than their health bar suggests and stunning them has an effect as it removes their ability to heal.
Then also change Second Wind into:
- Second Wind: When at or below 35% health the effect of Vanguard is doubled.
What I’m trying to say is that the Spec fantasy has already been broken multiple times in order to facilitate gameplay choices.
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Yes. AM is a problem but i was just saying comparatively to other issues Arms is suffering from id rather keep AM as at least its good and in line with Arms fantasy than change it and leave other things to be. Giving Arms leech is cool but kinda meh, i feel it could easily just fall into the pit that DH is in now that its just too overpowered. I feel a smaller second wind effect would be better (any of these solutions are better than nothing).
Second of all i think Ravager in it self is kind of a weird ability. This is a lot of my own personal opinion and well, i like when classes adhere to their fantasy so take it with a grain of salt. But i think Ravager should be scrapped, which kind of warrior throws their weapon (not a small axe like weapon throw)? I think that talent slot could be a lot better spent on giving Arms dual wielding capabilities since Arms warrior should be a “Master of Arms”, kinda in the name. As it is now Arms is just an oaf that can only wield big sticks.
Kind of a tangent but id like to discuss everything, i was thinking of making a “Warrior community: Changes we want to see in shadowlands” post where we can make a fairly large but compressed and easily read summary of changes we want. To do this though maybe we had to make a straw poll or something similar.
Kind Regards
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I would like to see both AM and Ravager scrapped as neither of them really fits into the Spec fantasy. How can an Arms Warrior manage their violent emotions when they’re never supposed to have it in the first place? Arms is the calm and collected Warrior that never let their emotions run amock.
And Ravager is a straight up migical in the first place as it conjures a weapon up from nothing.
And I disagree. Anger Management should be replaced with a Striking the Anvil kind of talent and Ravager should be replaced with a talent that increased the chance for Tactician to proc. This change only makes sense if Arms goes away from passive Rage-generation to active where MS and OP generates Rage when used and Tactician has a “bad luck” protection.
And I’ve made a post where I laid out my feedback on Warriors in general and Arms in particular on the Alpha boards
Edit:
Having tested out the new Ravager I can with confidence say that the solution solves nothing. The chase speed is considerably slower than mob momvent speed even if you back pedal away from the spot. It’s far too easy to lose efficiency in both PvE and especially in PvP, it also takes away one of the counter-mobility tools Warriors have.
The solution would be to decouple this fuctionality from Bladestorm and make it its own sepearate ability outside of the GCD.
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Need to look onto legendaries effects first. It can change everything. For example if legendary give focusing rage ability )
Then Arms relies on borrowed power to even work. Borrowed power should enhance what’s already there and make it work better or provide an alternative. Saying, “legendaries will fix it,” is the same kind of attitude I see in chronically abused people who think that their situation will get better if “just X happen!”
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I prefer look on talents issue now. Still massacre is here. This talent is a parasite that makes tune arms numbers near impossible and push devs to focus on constant uncontrolled bleed damage source and destroy possibility to return executioner precision. I like EP. I hate this parasite
Talents are of little issue at this point. The talents can never be set properly as the things they affect are faulty. So you end up with either overcompensating talents that are “must have” for the spec, in which it’s a mandatory. Or you end you with talents that do nothing because the underlying mechanic is bad. Case in point, Dreadnought.
Even if AM and Ravager was replaced with something else this would still be the last choice as it’s depency Overpower only works when Tactician does, which means that you can go long stretches without it working or you can have in proc faster than OP can be used.
I wrote this feedback on the Warrior changes from an Arms perspective. It’s important that people see them rather than thinking that the changes have made all things gravy so they can stop and think critically when people like Bellular deludedly says that Arms is good in SL.
- Overall:
The spec feels unsatisfying to play. Unless you get a Tactician proc or is sitting on Rage you have nothing to do between auto-attacks and/or waiting for things to come off cooldown. This is due to the passive only resource-generation as you’re in the spec, or zone when you can do things and brought violently outside of it when you can just wait. It’s jarring and ruins the gameplay experience.
- Overpower → Mortal Strike interaction:
The idea is good. You do something and it has a concrete payout eventually. It fails though. Since Tactician has no “bad luck” protection you get the effect completely randomly. At times you can go a full OP cooldown without seeing a single Tactician proc in which case your damage is uninspiring, to say the least.
- Deep Wounds redesign:
I’m so glad that I can finally hit things and watch it die rather than wait for it to bleed to death and the instant killing of mobs has made the experience smoother. That being said there’s a negative to it that’s less obvious just from looking at it. Mastery is too important. Damage is going to fluctuate downward as you level and you’ll feel like you try to play catch-up. At end-game, this trend is reversed and as you accumulate more Mastery your damage will increase exponentially.
This also creates an odd situation with gearing where an upgrade can actually be a downgrade and you’re better off sticking to your old gear if it provides more Mastery. Due to the passive resource-generation Haste is also massively important. As opposed to other specs that have a primary Secondary stat this effectively means that Arms has two. With this change Mastery is way too impactful and so is Haste. A solution to the Haste issue would be giving Arms active Rage-generation as I’ve described earlier.
- Ravager change:
This change solves just about nothing. Chasing a target is a novel idea and the chase-speed is significantly slower than even a back-pedaling tank and the mobs that follow them. This talent is also utterly useless in PvP as it’s far too easy to avoid taking damage from it. A solution would be to scrap Ravager completely along with Anger Management.
If you insist on Ravager still being in the game a solution would be to decouple the counter-mobility on Bladestorm and make it a separate ability off the GCD. Then give Ravager two casts like the Conqueror’s Banner. The first attach it to the Warrior and the second detaches it from them and puts it on the ground.
Aside from the DW change all of these changes are merely band-aids as the problems with Arms are too fundamental to be changed with just a few talent revamps.
And the Deep Wounds change brings further problems down the line that are invisible now as people can create template characters for each zone that starts with scaled-up gear. Going up in level will effectively make your main attacks hit for less and make you feel less powerful despite that you have leveled up and should feel more powerful even if your secondaries drop in value. And in the end-game Arms is quickly going to spiral out of control due to the same thing that makes them feel weak as they level up.
Yeah AM row need something significant. Ravager swap with collateral. Collateral remove. And bring 2 competitive adequate talents to last row