New Group loot - How is loot effected if you're locked?

Community General Discussion
1

Some guilds have more lether/plate etc users than other groups. Say if I pug a raid, to increase my chances for loot, or if I pug because a day does not match my raid schedule.

What happens if I am locked and I join the guild’s raid to help them fight a boss?

Is that still possible? And how will that affect the loot table? Prior with Personal Loot, you just wouldn’t get any items, and an even amount would still drop, based on how many un-saved people there were. Based on the mix of armor types.

Especially now with RNG, on top of RNG; it can take weeks, sometimes months, before a BiS would drop from a boss, vs before with personal loot.

I get blizzard is trying to limit the amount of loot; but I can also see a huge waste of loot, if i.e certain armor types no longer needs them. Or if a guild runs with say, 2x guardian druids. Then plate tanking items, are kind of wasted.

Some armor types are also more present than others. It also means pugs; leaders will just invite every other armor class, than themselves. Say a mage makes a pug, gets all the cloth loot himself, by avoiding priests, locks and other mages.

It means, some classes, that are more popular, are generally unfavored in terms of loot. While more unpopular, are more likely to get loot. For example, Druids, Rogues, Monks and Demon Hunters share loot. That is far more, than for example Mail.

So Mail is in that regard favored, or if an increase of leather will drop as default- that will be unfavorable for groups, running with less leather users…

It is not super transparent with loot anymore, and I am having a hard time, figuring out, if in some cases you are better off pugging on occasion vs others.

Do people know more about the new loot system?

2

Would still be possible, but you will simply be lootlocked. You won’t be able to roll on any item, simply because you already did.

3

Yes but how does that effect the rest of the raid. Say if 1 less item drops from a boss, and then the RNG on top of that, what loot type is also locked.

So instead of 3 items dropping, it’s now only 2, on top of that it’s one less chance of a specific armor type dropping also. Say you have no cloth users in a raid, you want as many options as possible, as much loot dropping as possible, to reduce the risk getting an item, you basically have to disenchant?

I am not sure if it makes sense what I’m saying?

4

Ok. Not 100% sure, but let’s say for the argument that 1 piece of loot drops for 5 eligible people. If you have let’s say 7 people that are raidlocked, only 3 pieces of loot would drop. But what about 24 people that are locked? No loot, or just 1 piece? THat I don’t know.

5

It’s not exactly transparent. That’s kind of my issue.
Even Casino-winnings on slots, or MLMs provide more clarity about earnings and winnings than Wow atm.

Not to mention the system doesn’t know the difference between a need roll, being Offspec or Main spec. (But I made a separate thread about that)

6

I think if the system doesn’t deduct the amount of loot if less than 25 people are eligible for it the guilds will use this loophole to gear their main raid group faster.

Basically the guildies Will level mains and alts, then alts and backup players will raid, get loot locked, then the main group wil split into even raid groups where 17 out of 25 people will be locked and the loot will be distributed among the remaining 8.

This might also result in some dishonest behaviour in some guilds.

7

I can definitely see that as an issue, and of course it shouldn’t be like that. It’s just nice kind of knowing the transparency of the system, so say if I’m saved. I don’t want it to be going on a too big of a compromise than it is.

Like if we’re 10 people, and I’m the 10th joining, I’d only expect the number of loot chance going down by 10% and not, say i.e 50% consistently if a single piece of loot is removed.

not sure if it makes sense what I’m saying?

8

The issue you described above happened already with personal loot. My raid group has plenty of mail wearers, so 80% of the mail loot went for sell and disenchant while we only had one or two plate wearers at most, so they barely got any loot.

As to your question it should work as it always did: If you kill a boss you will be “locked” out of getting loot from the boss for that specific difficulty. You can still help your guild kill that boss, but you will not be able to roll for any of the loot that drops from that kill.

Otherwise people would keep queuing for specific bosses, and if the item they need does not drop from it they just leave and queue for another run.

The loot amount is set based on your group size, so unlike with personal loot there should be no situation where you receive 4 loot drops instead of 5 because the person loot locked “won” the roll behind the scenes. Master loot use to work the same way.

The “if you are locked and you attend the raid you can screw your guild over with drops” is a personal loot thing. Back during ML and GL times you only screwed yourself over by loot locking yourself, while with PL you could shift that to your entire raid group.

9

I would say its exactly same as it used be with personal loot .

Back in day, we tried to help a friend, so we went into m0 ( it was start of season so no +s) 3 of us were locked so we tought all gear would go to those two not locked . Well, doesnt work like that , some bosses did not drop anything at all, because , i assume, game wanted to give it to someone who already was locked .

Same thing happended when we tried to 3 man it instead ( non locked this time) sometimes we didnt get loot at all .

So, imho, unless proved otherwise, i would say u going as locked into raid simply cut others chances to get loot .

10

To my knowledge, how it has worked and will keep working is that each player is +20% chance of a drop. That means there is no scenario in which inviting a loot locked player makes anything worse. You are not helping generate loot, but you are not making any claim upon the loot either.

If you have a raid with 17 non-locked players, it doesn’t matter how many locked players you add to that. 3 items - +40% chance of a fourth - will drop, and 17 people will roll on them. If the locked players improve your chances of killing the boss, they are worth bringing.

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11

Keep in mind that this happens due to how personal loot is designed to work, so the loot is only lost because the system cannot give it out to you.

With group loot the loot is in the boss you killed, not pre-destined to your pocket, so if it works like it used to work with GL (and ML) then the loot amount will not be affected with you being locked, but instead you will not be allowed to roll on said loot.

We are talking about Blizzard however, and we already see news of some pieces of gear having incorrect tagging (hence why people can need roll on stuff they already have) so I honestly expect it to start out as one big mess in pugs until they iron every detail out.

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12

Yea well, like i said, unless there is blue post for clarification , i assume it will work in worst possible way ( so the way i described ) which i honestly hope wont be true .

13

Unfortunately I kind of feel similar, it will work in the worst awful way. Just trying out LFR, clearly showed the system is already floored, as people who need items, roll offspec, despite their loot specialization is set to that item. Meanwhile people who got 20 ilvl above; get to roll a Need MainSpec.

All in all. I cleared all LFR yesterday; of all the items I could roll (which were not many) all my rolls were offspec; on items I actually needed. Even Tier items, was “Greed” roll for me, despite it being upgrades.

The lack of transparency means, I’m actually more happy if Blizz just ditched loot all together and went with currency instead…

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