New Mage doesn't know which spec to play

Classes Mage
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Hi everyone, the title pretty much sums it up. I tried looking through other threads, but people are VERY split about which specs are “bad” atm.

Arcane
Some say Arcane is bad and needs to be completely re-done, others say it has “insane heals when geared right”.

Fire
Some say Fire is in a really bad spot, others say it is the best Mage spec for dmg.

Frost
Some say Frost is “completely broken”, others say it’s only broken in ST dmg, and then I also hear people say Frost is amazing in PvP…

See why I’m confused? :sweat_smile:

So with this… I would appreciate some feedback on each specs current situation :slight_smile: Which is better in ST/PvP and which for Mythic+?

OH AND ONE MORE THING
Is Mage supposed to feel this weak while leveling? I’m lvl 42 and JUST…KEEP…DYING… or close to at every mob fight.

“Durh hurh you must suck at the game then”
Toxic person

No seriously…? I have never struggled this much killing mobs with any class in the game, and Mage is the only class I don’t have at max lvl. Whenever there are 2+ mobs, my health goes down really fast.

It feels as if each fight I get into, is only a question of “kill fast or die”… Kinda like a glass canon class in general no matter the spec.

I use my Barrior at the start of each fight, and if needed also Temporal Shield. I use my slows, roots, and Blink away to try and dodge dmg, but I always take heavy dmg.

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Once geared, Fire will blow away the other two specs in pretty much any situation. However, in M+ you absolutely need a tank who pulls around your combustion cd, if not then it will feel quite lackluster.

Arcane, has some only-st and only-aoe uses (f.e. visions) but overall it sure needs a rework and I do not believe it is very viable in any content atm (obv any spec is viable up to a certain level, but well).

Frost, less burst than fire but imo can still perform pretty decent overall. Also requires certain traits, but that counts for many specs.

I think the key is here to not let them reach you^^. Admittedly I have no clue what spec works best foe levelling since I have been Frost since day 1.

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I attempted leveling a mage without dying countless times now.

And I can say with certainty: Arcane is the way to go (at least below level 100). Not sure about higher levels, might change there.

  • Stay at four arcane charges whenever possible.
  • Have your conjured food to eat between fights.
  • Never engage two mobs. That’s a bad idea.

Frost is the second best for leveling, because you can slow enemies better. But slow enemies still can reach you and damage you. Dead enemies can’t - therefore Arcane is better. Also frost deals damage WAY to slow. You can kill two or three mobs with arcane in the time you’d need to kill one with frost.

Fire is horrible for leveling. Outright horrible. Forget everything you read on the internet. That’s for level 120 people who want to raid competitively. Just forget fire exists for the purpose of leveling.

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All 3 specs are very good at max. Arcane has issues with cleave dmg… thats about it. Fire is not the best hands down, it’s ST over a full combustion cycle is actually less than Frost and Arcane imo and on my sims, it is also the hardest to gear well. It’s popularity atm comes from insane burst cleave that can delete adds in raid encounters and big pulls in m+ while maintaining full dmg on one target. Outside of combustion the dmg is poor.

Levelling via questing frost is the best for survivability, use your blinks, frost novas and many many slows to stay away from the mobs. In dungeons Frost or Arcane will give the best dmg, fire struggles with aoe levelling.

All 3 specs are strong in their own ways, Arcane is best ST, Frost is best 2-3 targets and Fire is best above that and has insane burst every 2mins.

Play what you find the most fun.

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Don’t know about leveling, I’d go with frost. Here’s my take on the specs at 120:

Arcane can be good if it is given the spotlight. However, with how it works, it’s always in a kind of niche position: during your burst you cannot really move at all and you’re basically rooted to that one point. Not very good, and specs like that are often lower value because they’re very inflexible. Currently arcane is “decent” if you really want to play it, but there’s no real reason to take arcane over fire for anything right now. Well, arcane can actually beat fire in single target, but that’s only for pure single target patchwerk fights (not valuable) and even then only slightly.

Frost is not dependent on burst damage, it’s more of a consistent damage spec, which does make it very flexible. However, again, it loses to fire in almost every aspect at 120, with the exception of PvP, where I believe it is better than fire for 3’s at the very least. Well, some people claim it’s good for visions too, but personally I think fire is actually the best vision spec.

Fire currently dominates raids, m+ and pretty much all PvE content. Strong single target damage which also translates into strong aoe damage because of how the spec works (you don’t need to make a choice between single target and aoe, they come in the same package). Downsides are that sometimes a passive cleave is not a positive thing, and fire does require gear to get the maximum potential out of it. However, once you get the essentials, you don’t even need to look at the other specs for PvE.

Your assumptions that you listed here are in my opinion either very outdated or wrong. Fire is not in a bad spot (unless you ask Redantro or whatever that guys name is, don’t listen to him on anything), and frost is not “completely broken”. Maybe it is for PvP, although I haven’t heard any frost mage domination there either, most are just complaining about gpyro. Frost is also the weakest ST damage spec right now.

Last thing. You didn’t say what spec you used for leveling. Ditch fire for that and either go with frost or arcane (I recommend frost). Frost leveling requires two things: that you know how the core mechanics work (shatter/flurry) and how to kite properly. Figure those two things out and you can pull 40 mobs at once and not die. Or well, that’s what I did when leveling. Here’s some reading for frost: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/frost-mage-pve-dps-guide. Yes, all of this stuff is not applicable until 120, but it does explain the basic stuff that should be important even at level 42. Check your spellbook for when you unlock certain passives, as those will change your playstyle. Good luck to you.

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On the topic of leveling:

Can’t say much about Frost since it’s been a long time since I tried that.

For Fire I feel like it really depends a lot on you getting Hot Streak going. Though some of it might be attributed to me memeing with Pyromaniac which is probably the worst talent on that tier.

As for Arcane I think you should still 2-3 shot most mobs at this level once you have 4 Arcane Charges.

And if I face 2+ mobs I use Pollymorph on one of them on top of using the Barrier.

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Thanks everyone :slight_smile: I have taken everyones feedback and tried it with my Mage. I’m happy that people seem to agree on the specs in my thread here :sweat_smile:

I no longer struggle while attacking mobs :slight_smile: In fact… It feels pretty awesome to feel the impact of your gameplay when in combat as a Mage. With Mage you actually gotta use skill to fight even basic mobs, and each mob feels awesome to fight if you play properly. Unlike other classes can just “tank it out” with self heals or armor.

Itøs kinde like playing a ranged version of a Rogue, which I say because I feel Rogue is one of the few other classes in the game that require thinking before pulling mobs. :slight_smile:

I alternated through all of them while leveling (before posting this thread), but noticed that I struggle A LOT as Fire spec. Arcane and Frost I noticed are best for leveling, which is what everyone has told me. :slight_smile: Frost deals slower dmg but with much more CC, and Arcane just outright kills anything before it hits me.

I will probably go Arcane while leveling, and then Frost when getting more talents further down the road. I love the CC Frost provides, but like the visual style of Arcane much more since it goes well with my Void Elf :sweat_smile:

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As a returning player from TBC, I decided to level a new mage, rather than reuse my old character, and found myself in a similar bind.

I ended up levelling as arcane until lv 48, then switching to fire. I can corroborate fire being a poor choice at lower levels, but Fire Blast Rank 3 makes a big difference. If you feel like giving fire a second chance during part of your levelling, I can recommend it after then. :slight_smile:

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Always frost while leveling, mobs will hardly reach you if you learn how to kite and they got so many cooldowns for you to rotate that makes the fights faster. It’s good for you to learn how to survive.

If you want to play arcane of fire, do dungeons and learn the specializations.

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Frost does more dmg than fire on 1-2 targets, maybe 3, over cd cycles. Fire parses better because most it dmg is done in a 20sec window so any 2m30s fights or 4m30s fights it looks incredible. Frost also does a ton more dmg in any dungeon where the tank can’t/won’t do big pulls around combustion.

Fire’s dmg is great but it is very situational and group dependant a lot of the time.

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WTF dude, you bash me for stating that arcane does the best ST dmg and here you are saying just that.
I think perhaps you and me are eating the same mushrooms :slight_smile:

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Honestly, it’s absolutely pointless to come up with “scenarios” where frost could beat fire: realistically, with the current PvE content that we have, frost is not competitive. And I am always talking about what is best at the highest level of play: not what happens at mythic +5’s. This is why saying that frost is “better” in these ways is in my opinion extremely misleading.

Yes, it doesn’t mean you can’t play frost, and I don’t believe a spec is ever unplayable: it could be fine if you’re doing more casual content, and it actually is. But when someone asks what is objectively the best spec currently, you cannot give frost any real thought.

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This is how it is Mr DK and Mr DH.

Every mythic raid leader wants fire mages because they can combust on add spawns and basically remove the mechanic.

Every rio pusher over 2k wants fire mages because they can delete nasty mobs or big pulls.

Most of the best mages in the world are maining fire for these reasons and it shows on logs and rio.

Below these levels the power fire mage brings is not utilized. Pugging a +15 as a fire mage you’re very unlikely to find a tank that pulls around combust and therefore to do more dmg than a frost mage.

In a single target or 2 target raid boss frost will do more dmg than fire unless the fight is between 2:30 and 3 mins long or about 4:30 long. Frost is the best option for consistant dmg.

I have 30% mastery bonus corruption, my frost and fire gear is at a similar level and frost sims about 8k dps higher ST over 6mins. Maybe if I had a mythic font istead of a 435 or my 445 badge was a higher ilvl it would be closer but that just illistrates another problem Fire has, the insane gearing requirements.

Player perception is the reason people think Frost and Arcane are weak not experience.

Btw I’m not a hardcore frost player I try to play all 3 specs, gear allowing. I play whatever I think will give me the most dmg in any encounter.

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Show me a fight in the current tier where a frost beats fire, heroic or above. I’m not trying to argue against playing frost or saying that it’s unplayable, or even bad: I’m saying that if we look at things objectively, fire is better. There are no two ways about it. I’m not sure why you argue against that, when all the data is against you.

Again: let me say this. You can play what you want. Arcane and frost are not terrible at max level. However, if you want the best mage spec for PvE, it’s fire. No, it’s not frost, it’s not arcane. And by the way, you don’t necessarily need a tank to pull around combustion. If you know the dungeon well enough, you can time it properly with pulls. Frost can be decent for m+ as well. It’s just not the best spec for it.

Also, I simmed your character. You sim at 76k with your current frost gear in a patchwerk fight, so if your fire sims below 70k they’re definitely not very well geared on your fire. Yeah, gearing is probably the biggest reason why fire isn’t viable right off the bat, but again, I’m not talking about if a 450 frost mage is better than a 450 fire mage, I’m talking about when they’re both geared well.

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We should arrange a marriage. Bloodhoof/Khadgar. I have lots of gold

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I explained why Fire does so well in parses. Over 50% of their dmg in done in 20sec over a 2min cycle. All the best mages are maining fire. And it doesn’t matter how well you know the dungeon if your only doing small pulls, not to out dps frost.

My Frost ST sims at 83k ish and Fire ST sims at 76k ish. I’ve been trying to get Fire ahead all patch but I can’t. Like I say my only weak gear is trinkets. I have 30% mastery bonus from corruption, 465 mecha bracers with sockets, azerite gear is all m+ vendor or n’zoth hc.

Frost’s splitting glacials is especially strong for hc ra’den, drestigath and N’zoth. Also the slows and glacials great at sorting out stray blobs on il’ganoth.

I’ve made a Arcane build recently for mythic Maut as both Fire and Frost suck on that fight as the dmg is great for the first 3 bosses of the raid.

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