For the RWF, wouldn’t matter much since the teams want to be as quick as possible. Right now, same applies for Heroic, RWF teams are attempting Mythic bosses without everyone having full Heroic gear.
In general, you have a good point but that’s not so much different than Mythic guilds farming Heroic almost fully first for gear (when there’s no big time pressure such as RWF).
Also, gear cannot trivialize an encounter fully for today’s Mythic difficulty since mechanics matter more I presume. So I wouldn’t say it’d be moot, but may be easier indeed.
Nobody wants to do a “This is the hardest mode, but not really” mode. The problem with Mythic is it’s tuned around professional skill and time investment, making it completely unrealistic even for really good players.
If they are going to tune bosses around the world first race, they need to nerf them right afterwards, and hard, and sure some people will complain, but then you have bosses which aren’t a joke 2-3 weeks after launch like Heroic, but aren’t still impossible for 99% of players 2-3 months after launch.
Look how popular raiding is in Classic, because you can get the best gear from easy content, and the competitive aspect just becomes speedrunning. I’m not saying it should be that, but maybe a compromise from what it is now where most people don’t even bother trying to get into it, even if they could, because they can just do M+ and pug heroic.
We don’t need new modes, just make Mythic realistic, after the RWF if needed.
I don’t raid mythic because it serves no real purpose.
Doing 20+s M+ which is faster, easier, puggable etc. will present you with max level gear over the season. Heck - crafted gear is almost the same as max level gear (atm 3 ilvl difference) - the difficulty of mythic isn’t in the encounters but in the fact you need to find 19 more people on the same server who can raid at the same time as you and be knowledgeable enough and skilled enough to avoid stupid deaths and wipes.
This is something that was never fun to me -I’d rather do a 20+ where I’m 20% of the group and have a little more impact on what’s going on, rather than being dependent on NINETEEN other players not doing a stupid thing.
So frankly, OP’s proposal is indifferent to me. And from a neutral observer’s PoV - it seems silly - we have already 4 raid difficulties - adding more and more is just pointless no matter what the basis of it is.
I’d rather see LFR and normal merged. My opinion is that complete pepegas and tourists just shouldn’t even see the raid if they can’t press 3 buttons and move properly. I mean, normal is as free as LFR anyway.
Mythic should stay as is tho. The trick, however, is not designing the game around a 2 week RWF event that 90% of players don’t care about (checking the news on wowhead who won doesn’t count as caring - it’s just basic curiosity - most players dont follow their streams, check comps or videos from kills or w/e).
OP’s idea tries to reinforce the special status of that stupid event. The event is extra stupid as there isn’t even any $$ reward from it (except streaming/sponsor money - but Blizz doesn’t offer prizes). The sad part is that game and gear’s balancing is often influenced by RWF too much.
As far as I’m concerned - the game should literally do something to make RWF pointless - either make top difficulty too easy so their speedrun isn’t interesting or idk.
Errrr, that’s straight up not true. Rwf guilds spent days split running heroic to be as geared as possible and it still took 2 resets to clear the final boss with everyone at 481 ilvl. If you create an easier version of mythic that scales to raid size and lets them practice the mythic mechanics for the fights while they get loot, they’ll absolutely do that first.
It’s just a case of better tuning. Last tier was too easy, this tier the penultimate boss is too hard / the wrong kind of difficult and it’s made it hard to distinguish at this point if Fyrakk is actually too hard or not.
As someone who led the raiding efforts of mythic raiding guild for over 4 years, I can tell you for certain that this won’t work. I can also tell you we had to drop out of mythic raiding to recover from a guild split, and that this didn’t kill us. This difficulty that’s slightly below mythic and does have flex mode is called heroic. The first 3 bosses in mythic are usually easier than the last three in heroic, so the overlap is already here.
The issue is that these bosses are so difficult and tightly tuned that players will look for any advantage they can get, and when you do this sort of scaling, you get breakpoints.
A mythic raiding guild will optimise for these breakpoints. Suddenly, one boss is 15 people, another is 18, another still is 22, then 24, then 25, then 20, etc. Why would we do that? Because we’d have to. It’s too hard otherwise.
I understand OP said minimum 20 people, but the problem remains, as demonstrated by the last part of my list.
Mythic is tuned around basic rotational knowledge and to an extent heroic itemlevel gear. You can already overgear most bosses beside possibly the last four. You do not have to go through all three weapon Phases on Igira with more gear, nor do you get more than 3 soaks on Volocross with more gear.
Mythic require coordination, which is where most of the players fall short, plus a lot do not want to commit to a strict schedule that mythic raids require.
A lot of the raiders I encountered throughout the application process to raid mythic fall short on simple premises: lack of situational/mechanical awareness. Some are just not able to process and handle targetted mechanics.
Usually the biggest change in mythic is that the mechanics heroic raiders leave to the dedicated “mechanic handlers” are now something everyone has to deal with. Most cannot handle that level of personal responsibility.
Mythic, in essence, is not much harder than the later bosses on heroic. It does require a decent knowledge of your spec and rotation, but nowhere near professional levels.
However, this has to do with the logistics of having 20 people, with specific rolls connected at the same time.
And its a problem for so many people. Mechanics of Mythic and knowing your toon and all that comes after you can actually cross the door and step foot inside. Its “step 2” if you will.
So what OP refers to, and I endorse, is to add something in-between heroic and mythic. For those that have the quality but not the commitment to a mythic raid.
If I recall Cross Faction comes when they launch TWW. It would stand to reason that if you can cross faction guilds you can have cross faction Mythic raiding. It also stands to reason that when .5 patch launches they generally open up cross realm so this would include cross realm and cross faction. Though to be fair I have not actually seen or read a blues post on this yet.
Skimmed this thread, so apologies if someone has already said this.
I see one initial problem with “Famed”.
LFM for “dungeon”, must have Famed achievement/title. LFM for “raid”, must have Famed achievement/title.
I’ve a decent bit of experience raiding Mythic, nothing recent, but in cutting edge guilds and in weekend dad gamer guilds that lose to the recruitment boss. Castle Nathria the last time, but WOD and early Legion Mythic stuff too.
I think like I’ve said, it’s too difficult to ever be as popular as it deserves to be. The thing is in these discussions people always focus on how hard it is as a player, which is rarely the issue, the issue is usually time investment to reward ratio, and a lot of gamers simply do not have the endurance in them to keep going ore the foresight to see that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Now I always make friends with people and get dragged into guilds like this, that’s what happened in Castle Nathria. Great people, good players, but when we got to Sludgefist they were already mentally done, we were 1 night away from killing it on Mythic before we didn’t have signups, clearing the raid with our skillset WAS realistic, but they were spent.
I’ve got a friend at the moment who I used to raid with, his guild is 7/9 mythic working on Tindral, but Tindral is just too hard and I think these bosses should have been nerfed hard weeks ago. The guilds that make it past the roster boss long enough to kill these bosses are going to be too few in number.
We just killed Nymue without stamina buff, not because we wanted to brag but because our priest was busy irl.
I think most guilds would prefer playing suboptimally over not playing at all, and you can’t argue that it’s toxic to have to bench a few people from a flex mythic to get optimal breakpoints when the current way of dealing with a static raidsize is to always bench a few reservists just to ensure that the raid always takes place/you have the right class setup.
Plus as others have suggested: make mythic raid flexible after the hall of fame is filled, a few months into the tier. At that point guilds who still raid are aiming for CE and just want to finish it somehow with whoever’s still playing.
Except it is never as easy as you make it out as, there are always breakpoints for where an extra orb ect should be added. So you’re always stuck with certain setups.
2-4-12
2-3-9
These raid sizes don’t come out of nowhere you know.
maybe you should do a little research before trying to attack people… i mean the availability, RIGHT NOW… really, just try to check things before acting like a ‘’ know it all’’
i wasnt obviously talking about faction … that’s a mistake how hard is it to get realms from that oh my god lol even i dont pay this much attention on what i write here.
nitpicking much ?