Doesn’t work that way , different classes in their Specs same abilities differ aka having Shorter CD for example or have lower duration on them , we can take PvP scaling and how abilities change there for example DH stuns last shorter in PvP “Fel eruption” while in pve it lasts longer but “Chaos nova” (AOE STUN) in pvp lasts longer then fel eruption and lasts shorter in PVE , all those stuff easily scale with specs like other classes besides the point that you can and have in the talent tree of set spec talents that reduce/increase CD/Duration/effect and so on .
It can be easily done like at any other class in game atm.
I did. And lightning bolt does not have a modifier that sais “in case of Elemental X range, in case of Enh melee range”. Its the same range for both.
And modifiers like the ones you suggest don’t exist in the game. For any spec. So you would have to invent a brand new back-end mechanic that has not existed in 20 years just to get your shaman tank.
When it exists, then we can talk. Until then, the reality is that it does not.
DK DPS and DK tank. Both do. And if you give DKs a 20 yard kick it will be for BOTH DPS and Tank DKs… Your point is?
When Blizzad can demonstrate that they can do a proper balancing job between existing specs then we can talk. Until then, I think the naive BS is from your side.
As I said already 100 times. I am being realistic. Not idealistic.
There is nothing wrong with a shaman tank spec. But we can talk about it when Blizzard dosen’t spend one whole expansion (DF) with all 3 shaman specs in F tier across all content… then does a rework and we are all magically OP… and we will get a nerfbat once again back to F tier. And this has been going on for 20 years now.
Adding 1 more spec, and in particular one more roll, is like rousing a flame with gasoline. How can I be the only one that sees this?
So I repeat once again. TODAY, with 20 years of data to prove my point, Blizzard is not up to the task of making a Shaman Tank. Not because its design is not good or bad (regarding your presentation) but because Shaman Tanks don’t exist in isolation. They live with the other shaman specs and other specs that occupy the same roll. And you have NOT taken that into consideration in your presentation.
If you want to talk about another spec that is not Shaman look at Aug for example. They tried something new that in isolation is a good idea. But when you combine Aug with 39 other specs in the same party it stinks and is impossible to balance. Hence, Aug has been meta for 4 seasons in a row.
It is an example of why thinking beyond the spec is important. And Aug is not the only example. Its just the latest example.
You are absolutely right. There is a thing called PvP modifier that does those things.
And that PvP modifier modifes spells for ALL specs of a class in PvP combat. So yes, you are right. Some classes do have the CD of their kick increased in PvP combat. ALL DH specs, DPS and Tanks. BOTH have the same spell, and is modified by the same amount.
But we are talking between specs of the same class, and in PvE combat. And in this case there is no modifier that exists in game. Except for very specific abilities where modifying 1 spell like that would save Blizzard the work of having to retouch whole talent trees.
Wouldn’t be too hard to modify Shaman to allow for an Earth-based Tank Spec.
- Nature’s Swiftness becomes a 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds which also causes attacks to deal 50% damage to each creature within 8 yards of the primary target.
- Lightning bolt and Chain Lightning are instant cast with a 3 second cooldown.
- Primal Strike has a 4.5 second cd and does actual damage to primary target
- Frost Shock turns into a taunt with a 6 second cd.
- Spiritwalker’s grace provides 50% dodge for 10 seconds.
- Earth Elemental emboldens you with 60% damage reduction for 8 seconds. cd is reduced each time you deal nature damage (aim to have it around 3 minutes this way).
- Astral Shift provides a passive for shaman tanks that increases armor and stamina, while only reducing elemental damage for them on the active.
- Earth Shield charges are removed (both for self and others) and for self increases healing to 5% of max.
In the Rockwarden tree (or whatever it gets called) you’d need to focus on some extra buttons to hit (landslide being a conal earth attack, Fissure causing all enemies with 8 yards to suffer X earth damage and bleed for 12 seconds etc) as well as ways to allow chain heal/healing surge to be instant cast every so often.
I’m not saying it’s a good or necessary idea, but it could easily be done.
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@Tosemist there’s no point in trying to reason with it. He doesn’t want it to be implemented for the simple fact that he’s afraid that Blizzard will change his class (he’s afraid of a big nerf basically) and so he’ll always find a reason to say that it’s impossible, ignoring all the clues from Blizzard (there was even a post on wowhead) that they’re trying to see if it’s feasible. This doesn’t mean it will be possible of course, it’s just Blizzard’s attempt to please people.
@Sarella You’re the only one who understood that the discussion is not about whether or not it is feasible to make a tank shaman but only about what kind of gameplay we would like to have, what talents, what interactions.
People instead fossilize on other things… oh well…
I’ve always seen posts from people who wanted a tank shaman but no one who had taken the time to write down how it could be structured. I tried to do it.
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There is also Spec modifiers which have built in passive effect which changes from spec to spec take example Death strike for frost/unholy and look at Blood dk , same goes for every other class/spec that has that , simply put we have our defensives that stay the same but specing into tank they gain passive effect that modifies them + you always have nodes at the spec tree that changes them passively .
They don’t have to touch any of Ele/Enhance/Resto to modify our defensives for a tank spec or aggro ratio from them aka “Same spells for other classes also change aggro ratio when spected into tank look at DH Glavie throw as tank or dps” Take druid for example barskin having additional effects when speced into a tank , all those change duration/persentage of application aka from 20% dmg reduce to 30% as tank and in a lot of cases they are no only from the tank spec tree but because they are baked into the Tank spec.
There is just like stated above , try playing paladin/druid/dk/dh dps then respec to tank see how abillities do change to fit into the tank role ,
Its their work to do it we play monthly fee they earn money and keep their job idk why people defending them like they shouldn’t work or do their job + no one will need to modify every ability for a tank spec its just stupid statement abilities are not changed to fit all specs at once they are built upon in the talent trees like any tank spec that exists in the game to fit the role
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Because your base value of primary and secondary stats change. 
But the formula is the same.
Besides. Tanks in PvP ? I still dont think PvP is a good example of modifiers. In PvE they are much more restricted.
Otherwise, if you really want to play arround with modifiers they should start FIRST with Raid/M+ modifiers, which would be orders of magnitude more impactfull. And THEN we can talk about tanks/DPS…
They SHOULD is one thing. But that is not what I am saying.
I am saying that they havent done it for 20 years. Why would they do it for 21?
Proof first. Copium later.
We demand Shaman tanks.
We demand Shaman tanks.
We demand Shaman tanks.
WE DEMAND SHAMAN TANKS!
#MakeItHappen
#ShamanTanks2025
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Good example for you could be any existing class in game … want shaman? look at healing surge heal as enhance as ele and then spec into healer and see the number its called modifier that changes when you change spec so works any class in game , try out paladin or dh see how your abillities modify differently when switching to heal/tank (Those abillities that matter for the spec) proof is around you , same will go for sham tank same as paladin rets word of glory heal modifier and a protection paladin word of glory heal same for defensives , DH from havoc gets his dash changed into leap that generates more aggro on hit same is glavie throw same is sigil of flame if you compare … and that’s besides their Dmg/stat modifier/CD change and more then that the spec modifies them even more to suit your needs.
NOTHING FOR ENHANCE OR ELE OR RESTO HAS TO CHANGE to make defensives work or fit a tank spec , just by switching to a tank Astral shift can get 2 charges and have reduced CD like a lot of tanks have in game which changes their dps spec defensive into shorter or higher % reduction or CD reduction , another example Primordial Wave look how it changes from Enhance to ELE to RESTO
I am saying that they haven’t done HOLD to charge abilities until evokers were intreduces with abilities that demand you to aim them instread of tab target so why should they?
I am saying they haven’t add 3rd spec to a class in mid expansion so why should they (Augmentation)
I am saying they haven’t add support spec (Augmentation) into the game so why should they?
I am saying they haven’t add dynamic flying into the game so why should they?
I am saying they haven’t taken away abillities from a spec and add them to another class (Meta from demo locks into DH) so why should they?
I am saying they never had pvp talents/modifiers for pvp why should they add them?
I am saying they never had battle pet system why should they?
I am saying they never had transmog system why should they?
I am saying they never add que to raid (LFR) why should they?
I am saying they never had solo que rated arena/bg why should they?
i think you understood what i did there.
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Go ahead. Do it yourself first before telling others to do it.
First: The amount of primary stat changes depending on the spec. And because primary stat is the main component on the heal value of Healing Surge that is why it changes.
But it is still the same spell. Same formula: 489% of Spell Power.
Second: A series of % modifiers to baseline abilities all shamans get is no proof of anything. To acomodate a Shaman Tank you would need much more than that. You would need the spells to have modifiers such as the ones you see in the Hero Talents, where 1 skill does 2 completely different things depending on spec.
And you would need to completely delete the common talent tree and re-design it from scratch. And most of the skill tree from the 3 remaining specs to accommodate those changes.
Basically, not an overhaul of the Shaman class. But a re-design of the core aspects of the shaman spec from the ground up. And % modifiers wont cut it.
That has never been done. For any class.
So what is your point exactly with this ?
They did all this in stages. One thing at a time, over the course of 20 years.
You are asking them to do the whole package for 1 class in 1 patch all at once. THAT has never been done before.
And let me repeat. Shaman tanks dont exist in isolation. Any changes to the talent trees and spells of shaman WILL affect the other 3 specs. And they might not be happy of those changes. And that is why you never see new specs added to classes.
But lets get into the detail of the most grievous examples here:
Right. And how is that holding up? Augmentation Evoker was a spec that at BEST managed to split the community in two. And at WORST managed to completely trash the M+ scene on its own. Thanks to defining the meta for 5 seasons in a row (something no other spec managed to do). Also, Aug on its own turned the meta into a comp so oppressively superior that it tricked down to lower keys faster than in any other season.
Do I want to see more “aug evoker” things done in WoW? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
If that is your justification for having a Shaman Tank, then my answer is NO. Absolutely NOT. Because they will mess up the execution of that ROYALLY. Like they did with Aug Evoker.
Any other class that has that? NO? Then WHY?
Maybe because it requires a lot more than just adding some charge animation to it. Blizzard had to invent a whole race of ugly dragons in order to implement a mechanic like that.
And if you give mechanics like that to a Shaman Tank for example (if that is what you are implying) then what do you do with the other 3 specs? Leave them in the gutter?
NO. You would need to do changes to them too. And it would require a complete overhaul of what a shaman is, and re-imagine what they are from the ground up.
Which wont happen. They never did that. And that is why no other class other than Evokers have that nice mechanic.
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That’s because they were the new class that blizzard iterated it on silly goose , they wont overhaul/delete specs just to make them on older classes.
No one told ya they should do it to tank you came up with that in your head , i gave examples for your phrase of “They never did it in 20 years why should do” well they didnt do a lot of things for 20 years but hey in the end they did all of them same i have you been saying about almost anything you are from the people who “Dont change dont add anything only do CLASS TUNINGS” i bet you are from those who said “Plz dont do player housing they never did they never will that cant be done in wow they shouldn’t because we will lose on other content or CLASS TUNINGS”, we are fed up with people like ya.
Because i answered above why + just because they did it with a new class doesn’t imply rest of them need to have them.
Its an MMO stop crying some classes/specs will always be the meta just like DK’s were at start of WOTLK when they just came out.
Who told you they aren’t doing it in stages on their servers? have they implement Evoker class or monk/dk/dh in stages? have they inplemented aug in stages? have they Developed player housing in STAGES that you have seen? No you didn’t because they do it all on their servers test it out its a really stupid argument.
They wouldn’t simple as that .
I would indeed suggest you to play other classes that have tank/heal/dps besides shaman and see how abillities change from their core when specing into other roles and then get their own build up/nodes to change the ability in the talents tree that’s exactly why you have elementalist shaman/Stormstike builds because they change and sunergize differently from your picks same is done for example on “Death strikes” for dks as Unholy to Blood and how it changes the spell to “Procs” or “Heal more” or “Give a shield” when used dependant on the ability and node you took stop yaping you are speaking like we done have talent trees in game , the core talent tree won’t need any change in order for tank abillities to exist and build up on at the tank spec , and besides the point they change talent trees all the time past 2 years almost each season look at MM hunters how many entire Overhauls it got if not mistaken more then 4 from DF until now , so did a lot of classes so for real stop crying this game will have more suprises just like the player housing you have seen or Aug spec that got into the game mid expansion and i am all in for that and those changes that shake up the meta which will always exist , why aren’t you crying about Primordial wave getting overhauled and how it “Could effect resto/ele” why? because it works differently for each spec silly goose.
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Well if you know they wont overhaul classes to accommodate major changes like that, why do you think a major change like re-defining the whole general talent tree is something feasible?
Well… I have a whole expansion (WoD) as an example of what happens if you invest too many resources in 1 feature… to the detriment of everything else…
Look. Its opportunity costs. If you walk to the Left, by definition you are not walking to the Right. If you have 1 dev working on player housing, by definition he is not working on something else.
You might be fed up with people like me. Reality sometimes hurts. Flat earthers are also fed up of people telling them the earth is round.
DKs were meta for 1, maybe 2 raid tiers. They were not meta in ALL WotlK, AND in MoD 1st season, and 2nd season (as they will be)… and possibly 3rd season.
No other spec has been meta for so long.
Exactly. You need something new and brand new in order to do something like that. NONE of those features implied grabbing something that already existed and changing it 180 degrees. NONE.
So what is your argument? That to have a new tank spec you need to invent a brand new class to do it? Is that what you are implying?
Because if so, then it means Shaman Tanks are dead on arrival. Your new “tank spec” will be some new Bard class or something they come up 3 expansions from now. Just as they did with monk, dk, dh…
Look. Whatever you say. You think its so “easy” then they would have done it already. Not with Shamans, but with other specs. But they havent.
So I am certain they wont do it now.
Tell me you know nothing without telling me you know nothing , comparing EXPansion feature that goes away after it ends to a EVERGREEN system that is comparable to TMOG/PETs/Achivs , dude you are on another lvl of logic.
Yap yap yap if we have devs working on plunderstorm/remix/DRIVE system/Dynamic flying/player housing we should have less content by your logic yet it didn’t happen infact we got more content, what you want them to work more on mr smart guy? on more raids? on more dungeons? on what in your lil brain you need them to work more on?? Tuning? no one wants to play a copy pasta formula MMO that’s how they die and thats why DF was the only exp that actually kept the most players playing because of evergreen features .
Btw also seems like you are out of touch or dont follow on blizz interviews or anything at all in fact because they stated so much on them that teams working on those evergreen features won’t cut the base content that we had in every exp before them.
Yeah people like you indeed make us fed up and turned wow into boring copy pasta same formula expansion for a lot of years and we are happy they are doing new things trying out stuff like plunder/remix/support class/Action combat abilities with aim(Evoker) and new evergreen features making the game world Grow and not be left behind in the last exp to never get used again like “Azerite power” or “Garrisons”.
Indeed we are feed up with people like you mongo just look at lava burst dmg as ele and change to resto see the numbers go up because they scale differently in each spec you are clueless like a Fortnite player that just logged into wow maybe you are just someone who only plays 1 spec.
Already stated above not only by me how , stop askin how blizz knows how like more MMOS knows “HOW” no one will take your poor core talent tree infact maybe you also cry when they change it each season in general?
Scaling for each spec exists ingame already and no one needs to prove it to you you are just clueless to check it yourself or else are you even reason Class/spec Tunings? you never read how class wide abilities change per spec to fit/tune the spec and not the class so it wont cause more problems and wont change “The entire class tree” did you ever change spec to see the value of the same ability change ? on your Class go see without any talents how much Lightning bolt / Lava burst does .
“How can they bake Mana tide totem into Healing stream totem for resto to reduce button bloat for resto shams without changing Healing stream totem ability for enhance/ele”.
Go check how paladin/dk/druid abilities change from role to role in some cases their CD/value/effect as well.
You are straight up blind or do it on purpose.
Just like people like you were certain we would never have dynamic flying because “Its wow engine and not GW2 engine” just like it was “Its wow they cant do player housing”
Just like “Delves” came into game and people like you cried how it will take resources from your systematic boring expansions that we used to have that followed same boring uninspired development of the safe rout of “Same amount of dungeons/raids/seasons” per exp and not trying anything else , and how blizz stated in interviews “EON”-Evergreen features we work on won’t reduce the amount of overall content that you are used to have per exp.
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It was supposed to be Evergreen. But after it became such a massive failure they did not replace it.
We got the content we got. Not more, not less.
The question is what would you have prefered? To have devs working on Plunderstorm or Devs working on another Raid (for example). We would have gotten something (some content) regarless.
That is opportunity cost. Why is this so hard to understand?
Let me put it in a different context. The devs that worked on Plunderstorm in S4 of DF could have worked on Player Housing instead. And we would have gotten the feature in DF, at the cost of not having Plunderstorm.
But the oposite is also true. The Player housing we got now, we could have gotten something else. Like WotlK remix for example. Or an overhaul of Archeology Profession (to name another).
Why are you acusing me of wanting things as they are? I never said that.
All I said is that oportunity cost exists. Player housing could have been invested on something else. It could have been some other new and new feature I would enjoy more than player housing. It dosent have to be the “old same raid”.
You should learn to read. I did not just do that, I investigated WHY. Intelect value changes, and there is an 11% modifier. But as I said before a % modifier is not enough to differentiate spells between all 3 rolls if you want a tank.
They baked Mana Tide totem into Healing Tide Totem. A Resto ONLY spell. Healing Stream totem is left unchanged. Maybe read the notes first before coming here giving me lessons.
Look. If it was so easy it would have been done already OK? % modifiers to spells will not acheive what you want.
Never said that. Also, they did not have to change ANY aspect of the game to acheive it, because normal flying still exists.
I said: As long as they dont sacrifice a raid tier and create content drought. Like they did with the “selfie patch” in WoD. In the end its optional. You dont have to do it.
Never said that. What I did say is that it will create problems with balancing Delves/M+/Raid gear aquisition.
And guess what? Read the most recent S2 post from the Devs to see that I was right.
I also warned people about Aug in 10.1.7 PTR. I was right.
And I am warning you now with this Shaman Tank thing. And I will be right if Blizzard decides to do it.
Yes
That’s exactly what i was telling you mongoloid , they make core class abilities baked with the spec (Resto) to reduce button bloat without touching the core ability DFK you want? That’s exactly how it works for other classes/specs and so it will for a tank spec.
Exactly each spec modified for the role , and the same what i said and you somewhy don’t understand it still “Baking effects” into core class abilities and modifying them to fit the role or the needs of the spec , Tank paladins can make their Word of glory heal more but have CD same goes for every ability in game stop playing it stupid , core Healing stream totem isn’t touched but for resto it is baked with additional effect and its great!. that’s what people tried to tell you on how to “Not touch your precious shaman core talent tree”.
They never ever said they wanted it to be “Evergreen” even with latest eon interview he said “We never intreduced or called GARRISONS a player housing” as well as in countless interviews just before and in DF they said “We want to start doing evergreen systems that wont leave wow and be left behind as we developed EXPANSION tied only systems” and they gave clear examples of GARRISONS/AZERITE/ARTIFACT and they said they wanted to move away from it for the game to grow Horizontaly and stop working only on Vertical systems aka garrisons/artifact/raids/dungeon and they understand that it became pale wasted dev time that all those get left behind thats exactly why they even did “Time walking” and still do raids in time walking from past exp .
Stop making things up for your liking the reality is different.
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Good.
Shaman tanks should be a thing since legion.
Dont rage about it, most of his/her post always like this to anyone who share its opinion about shaman class changes (even if it wont affect him/her at all).
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I would like to see Swords option
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