New Shaman Tank for the Next Expansion

(If anyone can help me because I can’t insert images and it becomes difficult to follow the text. Thank You)

The whole presentation is here-> https: //ibb. co/w4w6Twp

I have been reading about the Shaman Tank on the forums for a long time but, maybe I am wrong, I have never seen an elaboration on it. Today, there is the Shaman Tank on Discovery but there is still no confirmation from Blizzard that something similar will be implemented on Retail.
The time may be ripe for the fourth Shaman specialization and I hope to be able to give a starting point. I have never played tanks so the numbers you will see may be under or oversized, forgive me.

The starting point is the name of the specialization: Warden. I chose this name to connect a bit to the Druid (our cousin who already has four specializations) and because the mission of the Shaman Tank should be to keep the (restless) elements at bay and ally with them to protect Azeroth. So from now on I will call him that!

I rework the Shaman talent tree to try to make it little more flexible and eliminate some of the hassles of achieving important talents. I also thought about grouping together the skills that are of the same type better. I think it’s much more organized this way and players can focus on what they really want to achieve.

I think Wind Shear and Earth Elemental should be base spells. This change is well suited to the introduction of the new talent “Furious Land” but above all because I believe that interrupt is a fundamental basic ability.

I think Reincarnation needs to be changed because it’s a bit clunky. Negates a death, but it does so with many non-enjoyable flaws, and very few upsides. The drawback of wasting active CDs and Buffs is already a huge loss more often than not. It just making it reset on pull would don’t make it overpower.

The Astral Bulwark is never considered. If it had the effect of being usable while stunned, it could find its niche, perhaps in PvP.

The changes to Elemental Resistence were made because it is a completely situational specific talent but, when needed, it needs to be easily usable to make sense. Adding it to Earth Shield’s healing makes it easily obtainable and nerfing it a bit makes it less important to have but you’ll want to have it anyway.

I changed Hex because after the pruning of the two-point talents, I found inappropriate to have two points to spend for such an unnecessary CC except in PVP or in niche situations. Bind Elemental talent is thematic, for Shamans, to add a CC about elemental creatures. Like Warlock with Demons.

The Furious Land talent was added to bring the Earth Elemental CD up to par with its cousins ​​(Fire/Storm). A 2,5 minute CD is still long and therefore does not incur unbridled use.

I changed Creation Core because it was overshadowed by Call of the Elements and therefore a dead talent. Now this talent becomes an additional option to help Shamans with resource generation.

I added Haze Totem, a new totem. I have introduces a new utility, it was previously exclusive to the Rogue. Just like Wind Totem competes with Stampeding Roar, the new Haze Totem will also compete with Shroud of Concealment. Haze is a fixed point that hides anyone inside it for a certain radius while Shorud moves with the user. So Haze is a nerfed version of Shroud. Totems should be able to copy the abilities of other classes but in a more awkward way.

The Mastery might seem a bit cumbersome but my goal is to give Warden the need to use all the available elements. So I came up with the idea that each element could strengthen a different defensive stats.

The Warden’s gameplay is to alternate the damage spells (Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning and Lava Burst) needed to accumulate Maelstrom to launch the spenders (Earth Shock and Earthquake) with those useful for maintaining aggro on the targets (Rockbiter and Stormstrike).

Warden can then choose different paths:

  • enhance the Earth Elemental that helps him maintain aggro in situations with various additions and allows him to obtain additional shields;
  • enhance the passive effect of the shields (Lightning Shield and Earth Shield) to do more damage and receive additional healing;
  • use various Totems to have access to abilities useful for protecting allies or spreading DoT and damage on the targets (the PvP talents that have now passed to the Warden, will then have to be replaced with new abilities);
  • also use a whole branch (Barricade of Fire, Flame Mastery, Primordial Wave and Splintered Elements) linked to Flame Shock to deal damage and increase block change;
  • enhance Stormstrike or Earth Shock/Earthquake to obtain additional effects based on the situation.

Warden also has three spells (Shamanistic Rage, Stoneburst Resurgence and Elemental Barrier) in addition to Ascendance, to mitigate damage in dangerous situations.

Other utilities that could be considered are:

  • Furious Totem and Resurgence (on Reincarnation’s effect) that, based on the situation, come to the aid of the Warden in case he should die. The first offers a totem that aggro targets, if Reincarnation is not available, until the Warden is ressed by an ally, while the second forces the use of Reincarnation and creates a pool that heals him and up to 4 allies in the area;
  • On Feral Lunge there are Feral Swap which adds the ability to help an ally mitigate damage and Feral Quake which adds a small AoE.

The last ability is Tempest Beam which, is inspired by Chain Harvest, useful for dealing damage and healing allies.

That’s all, I hope you appreciate the effort and love I put into this class that I love so much.

6 Likes

Yup clearly a lot of work lol! Good job, fun to read, bet it was fun to make aswell!

Hope they implement it asap, hell shove it into 11.1 and change it along the way, idc if it’s bad first lol

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#ShamanTanks2025

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NO. Bad idea to add Shaman tanks.

To make it work you would need to re-structure all other specs as well. With the current talent system that is.

Therefore, trading a shaman tank for 3 radically different shaman specs that many people love… Not worth it.

NO. NPCs tanking or assisting in tanking ? NOPE.

EE is already incredibly annoying as a DPS/Healer. Doing all kinds of whanky behaviour.

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The class tree would become purely chaotic and a nightmare to tune accordingly to feel equally good for the other three specs. For example: What to do with Astral Shift? 40% Dmg reduction with a 12 seconds duration on a 90 seconds cooldown is insanely overpowered for a tank. They’d need to adapt the ability for the tank spec which then creates problems for the scaling of the astral shift choice node talent.

This is giga ez to fix though. Just remove Astral shift from the tree and make it baseline for everyone but tank and give tank what it needs in its’ own spec. Then just fill in the remaining talent node with something basic. This is already being done with tons of mandatory choices that are in the tree, such as Wind Sheer, Frost Shock, Chain Lightning, etc.

Or, a concept also in the game atm, some nodes change when you change spec. Look at warrior for example, “One-handed specialization” switches to “Two-handed specialization” as you switch from Prot to Arms. And the node after Avatar also changes. So this is a different solution.

What other nodes are you worried about atm? I don’t think it’s even close to pure chaos and a nightmare, as you put it. I think it looks very benign overall.

A lot of people want shaman tanks, so let’s try to see the possible instead of the impossible, fix the issues instead of just whining about them

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Easier said than done. There are many more nodes, in particular… all of them. And that is the point ! You would need a much more than just a “re-shuffling” of talents. You would need a total overhaul of all 3 current shaman specs. Not a rework but a re-invention from the ground up.

Too complex. To difficult. And Blizzard will not deliver. They don’t have a good track record.

Not to mention they have never done something like this. Its too hard, so they prefer to roll out a new class from scratch rather than to touch existing specs to this extent.

I saw what you did there. You quoted me in another post about Shaman tanks.

You are apparently compelled to ask the same thing every week. And every week you will get the same responses.

And in that post you quoted I ended a dumb discussion where anyone that disagreed with your opinion was categorized as “toxic” and “dumb” by you.

So yeah. It is a good read for people to know exactly who Cartmaan is. And why Cartmaan cannot accept any different opinion other than his.

And why Cartmaan’s reasoning for having a Shaman Tank is simply: “Because Cartmaan sais so, and will report you if you disagree”.

oh so you’re not embarrassed by how you carried yourself there? Lying and intentionally misinterpreting stuff to the most extreme. Then you get picked apart fully and what do you do? you just flee. You don’t deserve to be taken seriously at that part, pathetic behavior

And again in this comment you keep on lying. You truly deserve a ban

Let’s put it back here then, so people can see what a “respectful and truthful conversationalist” you are

Tried to be nice but you really just have W keybound in your brain… jfc take a moment to reflect for fkn once

Sure. On a totally unrelated post…

I have many more posts than that.

When people attack me like that it leaves clear who deserves to be taken seriously, and who is the troll here.

If 1 post out of thousands I have participated in is your only “argument” against my comments on Shaman tanks…

It sais it all.

I said what I had to say regarding Shaman tanks. And my arguments are based on actual experience. Yours are based on some “ideal” that everything is easy, free, and perfect. Because you say so.

Based on that I will tell you the same thing I told Earthhquake :

“Whatever you say bro…”

I don’t understand why you’re fighting each other… everyone has their own points of view.

You can have conflicting opinions and, except for obvious cases, it’s never easy to be sure that one of the two parties is completely right because we are not Blizzard.

As far as I’m concerned, it’s not possible to say that all the nodes are bad because it’s not objectively true.
The only problematic talents are the two defensive CDs, the others are just situational kits, with totems and various utilities that can be more or less significant for the specializations but are absolutely not a problem.

For example, Spiritwalker’s Grace is useful for Ele and Resto but not for Enha but that doesn’t mean it should be changed or removed.

Putting Earth Elemental as a base is absolutely not a problem because it already is… everyone already spends a point in that talent to have access to Primordial Bond, so in fact shamans have it and it doesn’t seem to me to be such an OP talent so I don’t see this scandal making it a base talent and freeing up space for something else that could be more interesting.

It would be different if they asked to make it perpetual on the ground but that’s not what I proposed.

Blizzard is already trying on Classic to invent something to see how it can proceed. Based on the results they will see if it will be implementable or not in Retail. So they are spending time and resources even if it is not certain that it will materialize.

2 Likes

Another, but rather simple, reason as to why there won’t be a shaman tank spec is because of the class fantasy of druids as the “all-rounder”-class. This standout of druids is even noted in the class description. Shoehorning shaman in here would create a lot of, in my opinion righteous, outrage in the druid community, especially when after this implementation shaman’d be superior.

That is a false statement. When you design a class you also have to take in mind the kit of the other tanks. Because you need balance. And defensive abilties are not the only ones to take into consideration.

Think of cap totem, slow totem, root totem, speed totem, a 12s ranged kick… all those…

And comprare them with other tanks, and how you would balance that out with out nerfing that list of abiltities. And if you nerf those abilities for the tank, they will also be nerfed for the rest of the specs.

And vice-versa. If you want them better to make a Shaman Tank in line with other tanks, the buffs also affect the other 3 specs potentially making them OP.

So its not as easy as you guys claim. And the reason I know my concerns are valid is because we have the example of Druids to take. And Druids ALWAYS have the problem I mentioned above. Not with raw performance numbers, but with utility in specific.

And frankly, it dosent have a solution. So i suspect it also wont have it for Shamans.

Warriors and DKs have an interrupt every 15 sec while we have an interrupt every 12 sec so they could nerf it to 15 sec and I don’t see this as a big problem…

Always using the Warrior as a reference, has a spell that every 6 sec does damage and slows enemies.
The Druid, in all its forms can root (and better than shamans) so what’s the problem?!?!?!

Really buddy, what’s your problem?! :sweat_smile:
You want to go against at all costs, ok fine but at least be clear with us. You simply don’t want it and let’s be clear, this is not a priority of mine, whether or not a tank shaman is implemented makes no difference to me but at least I don’t make crusades based on nothing.

Let me correct that for you:

ALL warrior specs (DD included) have a 15s MELEE interrupt. ALL shaman specs have a 12s RANGED interrupt.

If you nerf it for shaman tanks you need to nerf it for 3 other shaman specs too. And then there is the ranged problem. If you make it melee you also do it for all other shaman specs. Which would mean RShaman and Elemental (ranged specs) have a MELEE kick.

See what I mean ? Does it sound familiar (Druids) ?

The problem is that if you give druids on top a defensive that they need they would be OP. And that is why they don’t have it yet. For the same reason Priest is the only healer with out a kick or CC. They would be OP if combined with the rest of their kit.

Its not just ONE skill. Its the combination of ALL skills. It’s what I wanted to say, and you picked just ONE of them (the slow). Tanks need a certain kit. Healers another kit. And Ranged/Melee their own kit as well.

And if you have too many skills available (or too few), with the current way talents and classes are made, you can risk giving a class all 4 kits simultaneously, or not enough of what it needs. Which is what happens to Druid. And it has problems.

I am being super, duper, duper clear here. How more clear can you get ?

I dont want to go agains shaman tanks at all costs. I dont mind a tank shaman in fact. But I will re-post my coments from other similar posts:

Having 4 specs in 1 class is not all “sunshine and rainbows”. Everything has a cost in life. Thinking that everything is “easy” and “consequence free” is a very naive way of living your life.

And from what I have seen, and Blizzards 20 year long track record, I dont want to pay that price. Simply put its not worth destroying 3 specs so we can get 1 tanking spec. That potentially might be ignored like BM monk is.

I am just being realistic here ! And that is why im against a Shaman Tank.

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With the amount of class utility shaman has, a tank spec would be soo broken if they wouldn’t gut a lot of it. :smiley:

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My boy, you didn’t open the link and you didn’t read my presentation… https: //ibb. co/w4w6Twp

WAY OF EARTH (Talent)
While Rockbiter Weapon is active you gain 20% increased health, take 10% reduced damage, gain 10% reduced chance to be critically hit by melee attacks. However, the range of all your ranged spells and all your totems spells is reduced at 20 yards.

PS: DK has a 15 yard interrupt :sweat_smile:

I repeat, no one is saying that there isn’t something to be fixed but to say that it is impossible (as you claim) or that we have to find some absurd compromise… well… it takes a lot…

For Mangì, Druid is the class with the most stuff in the world and yet it exists, so let’s not talk bulls***t please… :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You look better if you simply say that you are afraid of some change to your specialization and only for this reason you cry just hearing that maybe something could be introduced, without making up bulls***t to make people believe that it is impossible to implement it. Anyway, this discussion was intended not to ask whether or not it was feasible but if, in the case that the tank specialization was implemented, how people would like it. But I think it is asking too much from those who are afraid that this thing could happen… :grin:

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And this is exactly what I wrote. Druid is the “all-rounder”-class. It’s supposed to be the only class which can fit any class aspect of the game all in once. (ranged and melee DD, healer and tank) This is explicitly stated in the character creation screen when you choose druid so, according to Blizzard, it is something very important and an unique selling point of the class. Shaman would become exactly the same when it’d get a tank spec.

Cant compare them … our interrupt silences for shorter time then DKs or warriors