Thought I’d share what I’m feeling regarding the new talent system, in order to give some feedback.
I don’t like it, and it’s taking the fun out of the game to me. The worse aspects of the talent trees (choosing between single target, multi target and pvp) were picked up and they dropped the fun potentialities of it.
Talent trees should be made in order to choose between a gameplay style, not to choose between a game content. Why is it necessary to set your character to perform in dungeons, and change it to perform in raids? It’s not good, not even fantasy wise, to always be changing your spells for what you want to do.
It’s not about min-maxing, it’s about not being able to be viable with a single gameplay style for all content.
With wishes of great adventures and with respect to those who enjoy the challenge of tuning your character to the content,
Dostoievski
That’s a terrible idea.
I like the new talent system, it allows you to specialize utility more than ever. Or focus on ST or AOE or both.
Much more variety and options for group compositions.
Your idea is to turn the classes into homogeneous copies. That would be a disaster and turn the meta slaving even worse.
In FFXIV where most classes are pretty much close to eachother, meta slaving is extremely prevalent, it’ll solve nothing
You are saying talent choices should revolve around different gameplay styles. Then you don’t understand why should you change talents when you do content that requires different gameplay styles. Why?
Hm, I havent played many classes in DF so far, but what I see so far tree allows you to make the architype of spec playstyle as you wish and depanding what you want to run, you can tweak one of two talents depanding what content you are running and I assume its not same for every spec and sometimes you will lose major talents in doing so, but that is because its still on early stage and 2ndly you get to lose something to gain something useful.
As Outlaw I get to play 2 different type of absolutely different playstyles, which in my books is more then the older version of talents offered. In fact the old talents was exact same thing you have issue with in your opening post. Correct me if Im wrong.
Only issue I have with these new talent system is the new 2 point talent nodes, that feel more of point wasters rather then option to have 1 instead of both in order to progress. Because sometimes as player I might not want to take 2 points in a talent to make my build happen,but still want next talent. If they will fix that we shall have original old talent tree.
By gameplay style I mean, choosing a gameplay style focused on a spell I like over another. As pratical example:
Arms warrior: choosing between your aoe rotation being based of cleave, or based of sweeping strikes. Your single target rotation being focused on mortal strike, over execute. I don’t think it should be dropping aoe over single target, and the other way around. (not saying it as a solution, just trying to give an idea of what it could be).
Some people really wanted talent trees back but personally I was never that excited for them. They have at least made it so we can have up to ten builds preset and we can swap at any time (excluding M+). It’s free to change, we don’t have to have a resources or be in a special place.
The change in system has meant most baseline spells have been removed and I now have to talent into them specifically, so I’ve lost a chunk of utility. I start off with whatever the cookie cutter builds are and change them to suit me.
Some friends are really enjoying tweaking their builds constantly depending on what they are doing and others are finding the limit of ten presets per character aren’t working well as it’s too limited.
I understand that you like to have your character tuned to a specific situation. That’s exactly where our opinions diverge, and that’s ok.
I’d rather have a tree that suits my style, rather than tweaking it to face a situation. You can call me lazy, but I don’t see it that way. My character is what it is, I don’t like it specialized for a type of content, and I’d like to see the game going in that direction.
The problem atm is, I can’t have a single tree. If I want to be viable in a certain situation, I need to adapt to it.
Obviously some people like it, I’m expressing my opinion that I don’t
Maybe you should stick to easier content that allows for more diverse builds?
I dont go above heroic dungeons/ lfr, and find the talent trees great.
I can make my character exactly how i want them and i dont have to worry about how well it stacks up to the meta.
Obviously the higher you go, the less flexibility you will have. So find a level that suits you.
It eliminates the excessive systems in the past 3 expansions (Artifact, azerite, soulbinds, conduits, legendries) and incorporate them all into talents.
So we have a single non-grinding customized power system.
Negative:
It is exactly the same principle as vanilla talent trees, except there are 2 trees instead of 1 tree, and they have more nodes than old one.
It will INEVITABLY be more and more bloated in the future, because they have to expand the tree when we get more levels in the future.
It it not a sustainable system that will fail exactly like vanilla tree.
What you want to do is your gameplay style. The two are inseparable. Try as you might.
So some comps just work best with certain builds because those builds are optimised for that strategy you are seeking to use. And don’t think “comp” is limited to PvP. Compositions are also a huge part of M+ and even raiding. As soon as the difficulty ramps you MUST optimise your build to your playstyle.
The more options the better - balance is important. But this problem is endemic and core to the experience of any talent system. They will never fix it, ever. They can’t. Noone can, only diminish its impact through incredible effort.
Would say that “my gameplay style” should be the goal of the talent trees.
What I’d like would be to not have to pick a route for AOE or a route for ST, as it is now (and have been for some classes previously). I’d like to pick an AOE style, and a ST style, and stick with them for whatever content I face.
But then what is the point of choice? Then everybody should just have one static skillset and that is as good as it is in every situation.
I don’t think that would be viable in an mmo with different content. Like pvp or pve, single target or aoe, they are fundamentally different encounters and you should be able to refine your abilities to an extent to what is best for the content you play.
Basically if there is a choice, players will eventually figure out what is best for what. But to be honest that minmaxing only really matters if you are part of a top raiding guild or if you yourself aim to be the best at dps or something. With a suboptimal, but preferable for you talent choice you might lose a few % in damage, but if you are okay with it, you should stick to it. It is a game after all, the point is to enjoy it with the playstyle best suited for you.
Feral, frost, and arcane, which is all the 3 specs I have played at all during this patch (no feral in Dragonflight proper, but anyway…) have known good ST and AoE builds that differ. It’s just that during M+ people tend to go for AoE builds and for raids people tend to go for ST builds, though it varies by fight.
Neither build is good for PvP, which has 2-3 other builds with varying levels of complexity depending on the expected strategy on the opponent.
You will be able to get to quite high rating by just picking one of those 3 though, as you’ll have good enough matchups most of the time.
Talent trees are truly wonderful. It has meant I can junk all that utility stuff and focus on pure damage. Has made a massive difference to my play style. First thing to do as an existing player is delete everything the games folk preloaded up and focus on what you want to do.
From what I can see it looks like you can save different trees anyway so just make different ones to suit your needs.
I think they are a breath of fresh air. Just shows how utterly useless the last version was. I mean I not only get my choice of spells but improved versions of them to enhance. One thing for sure now as fire mage… gone are the days of casting over time. Popping instants is a way better way to play. Mana gone and now casting gone. Classic.
