New Talent tree update DF

Classes Shaman
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Warning: this thread includes heavy use of sarcasm

Respect. Blizzard made a good talent tree and managed to completely trash it in the last update and make good builds now completely impossible.

Thankfully they totally trashed elemental wolves as well so now you can spend a skillpoint to gamble how much you want to decrease your dmg rather than not spending a skillpoint.

Elemental Warding - now only magic dmg reduction. Makes so much sense considering how much shamans struggle against casters

Surging Shields - finally lightning shield will do 200 dmg instead of 100 dmg

Ice Strike and Swirling Maelstorm - Since nobody ever took it, well now we will just force you to take it, stupid shamans. Oh wait, no, you can choose fire nova that does no dmg in single target together with a single target (hot hand), instead of ice strike and SM. Of course you could Also no choose Hailstorm and make both Ice Strike and SM completely useless - genius.

Feral Lunge - speaking of genius: putting the worst “mobility” ability in the game in front of the biggest dmg CD that enhance has is just “nice”. Nah sorry, I could also take chain lightning that hits 5 targets instead while not even speccing into any aoe talents whatsoever.

Legacy of the frost witch - thanks for deleting a fun playstyle to make this talent boring and clunking with a 10% dmg increase to an ability that does no dmg anyways.

Doom winds - terrible talent. on GCD and chance to do nothing at all.

Forceful Winds - WHY IS THIS GOD FORSAKEN TALENT STILL IN THIS GAME

Unruly winds - why don’t you just increase the dmg of WF instead of giving WF another hit… then again just delete this freaking talent. It is absolutely worthless because you would tune the numbers to have it anyways.

Feral spirits - jeez how many times did you actually try to make it a useful ability while WOTLK is now launching with the perfect version of it.
15% phys dmg to stuff that does no dmg - nice one

Elemental spirits - roll the wolves 2.0. No matter which wolves and which combination you get will just feel crap. Maybe I win and they tune hailstorm so good that with double frost wolf and ice strike you can delete someone. Better pray to RNG.
Maybe the only good stuff is that you have 2/3 wolves that increase ele blast (maybe?)

On a side note:
What are we using now as a MSW spender?
Lightning bolt or lava burst?
Love having those 4% crit talent and 20% dmg for lightning bolt if we use lava burst and and ele blast instead.

small update after intense PTR testing:

Roll the wolves is even worse than expected. My dmg of ele blast crit ranges from 40k (no buffs) to 65k (with 2 wolves)

lava burst can be taken of the bars at the moment. It seems not to scale with MSW, whether intended or not, no idea but having to invest a skillpoint for a skill that cannot be used is kinda fail? Chain heal is similar useless anyways.

Hailstorm with 5 stacks feels terrible.
MSW generation without elemental assault is complete trash which makes it a 100% mandatory talent forever and ever.

Lightning bolt always hits less than ele blast even with primordial wave, which makes PW for me (thankfully) pretty bad.

Frost witch seems to be a dead talent with 10 stacks, especially since stormstrike doesn’t do much dmg.
With my build all dmg comes from ele blast and frost shock.

Lava lash build instead of frost, still has hailstorm (super weird) but it is more like a passive frost build. Lava lash does way to few dmg, even with all the buffs up. Hot hand and lava actuators together feel absolutely terrible because if hot hand procs, it negates basically the effect of LA as it doesn’t have the time to stack.

swirling maelstrom seems to be the worst talent ever developed and should just be flat out deleted.

Doom winds feels just so terrible to press. GCD and feels like it does absolutely nothing, what a joke of an ability it has become.

numbers of course are all over the place and I will expect some sad nerfs to ele blast as it one shots everyone with 2 wolves :o

TL;DR:
I liked the previous version much more where we could play all 3 elements and phys. dmg while the class tree was also not nerfed.

2 Likes
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Doom winds - terrible talent. on GCD and chance to do nothing at all.

I was expecting doom winds to stay as a talent. I just wished they combined it with wf totem again. Spending gcd on both will feel terrible with already absurdly packed priority list.

Forceful Winds - WHY IS THIS GOD FORSAKEN TALENT STILL IN THIS GAME

%225 modifier? On a ramp up? That falls off after 15seconds? I hated this talent ever since it was introduced and it’s still here. There is no rewarding situation for this “talent” specially in pvp. This is not how talents are supposed to be. At least just make it a flat damage increase.

Unruly winds - why don’t you just increase the dmg of WF instead of giving WF another hit… then again just delete this freaking talent. It is absolutely worthless because you would tune the numbers to have it anyways.

Agreed. While at it. Just make wf hit once instead of 2. It doesn’t help you proc anything anymore anyway. I’m tired to see 200 damage done while people crit me for 30k.

Apart from these i more or less agree everything you say. However i can’t whine about them since most of the specs have similar things.

Additional whine:
Stormbringer, increasing stormstrike’s damage is another downer for me. Just make stormstrike hit %10 more instead of hitting %20 more with stormbringer. Dont make stormbringer also increase damage please. We already have hundreds of modifiers.

Main whine, Lashing flames:
Enhancement’s damage profile is already over the top complicated with procs and every ability modifying each other. Spreading a debuff in m+ feels a lot like a chore. Please remove this kind of mechanic or limit it to only 1 target and buff something else.

3

This is ofc a problem for everyone. However since enhancement is low damage from a-lot-of-sources, it just becomes disgusting to see 200damage while your target has 100k hp.

4

i got details to work now and my dmg profile is absolutely laughable.

but not only for enhance but also for ele.

my enhance does like 60% of its dmg from ele blast and frost shock lol
rest comes from random crap like wolves and storm fart.

imagine, my stormstrike crits for like 4k while ele blast crits for over 50k, sounds about right lol

well at least enhance is fun yo play.

i switched to ele and tried heat wave build.

after i put up 2 flame shocks, i legit prrssed only 1 button till i had maelstrom for earth shock, then again pressed 1 button all day.
funny enough that my lava burst did 70% of my dmg, with 0 lightning bolts casted (my dmg progile only had 5 dmg sourcr total LOL)
ascendance procced often enough that i didnt even need yo renew flame shock at all, so legit 1 button rotation + 1 button for earth shock

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Tbh i love that our “finisher” ability hits that much. I believe it will be nerfed but i hope it stays that much on top.

Stormstrike has already become filler-like ability long time ago. Nothing they can do when it gets cd reset so frequently (i’ve been advocating against stormbringer since bfa alpha).

But it is what it is. Collecting msw and sitting on it for huge damage sounds fun in pvp.

What i want is accually condensing damage profile more.

Flametongue, instead of dealing 5 damage each hit, could just increase damage done of lava lash or flameshock or just all fire spells doesn’t really matter since it will be balanced afterwards. It’s just a flavor text. But seeing other spells currently hit less because of it’s damage feels bad.

There are lots of other very low -and inconsistent- damage sources. I honestly don’t know how much damage i deal when i press stormstrike. Combat log fills instantly. Takes the fun out of it.

For enhancement again, with ice strike being mandotary and also some other staff from shaman talent tree. I’m at the limit of keybinds again. Rotation is PACKED. Sometimes feels overwhelming. We have lots of buttons that does so little.

6

Technically I agree but there is a major caveat with this…
Now to hit that dmg you need:

  1. ele wolves
  2. sky fury
  3. 10 msw

The issue is that we cannot spend our MSW or we / our team just dies. The only useful thing in the past about enhance was its off healing. Now if you play 10 msw and they tune the heal according to 10 msw, means it will cut your healing frequency.

So once you spend you msw for offense you are so vulnerable to just flopping over. At least on ptr, my msw generation feels not very fast and that is with 100% uptime on a target dummy (without elemental assault you don’t even need to try).

The sad part right now is that they effectively broke 5 msw built as they removed the choice node. So why not just make 5 msw like it is now but let us hit for the same numbers?

well yes, but if it was meant to do such crap dmg why we have now talents that increase this crap by 30% and have also 25% nature dmg on it (basically 0 dmg) and also phys. dmg buffs when both WF and SS is crapperoni.

Interesting enough is that I don’t have all that more buttons. Most buttons actually also comes from utility but damage wise, I don’t get enough MSW to even use lightning bolt at all… maybe if lucky every 5th ele blast I could weave in a lb. LB is also really only worthwhile instead of waiting 2 sec for ele blast if you got 2 blue wolves up so it could crit for 30k :confused:

stormstrike mastery should be deleted and we could keep frost witch resets… then SS could hit really hard and that talent would also actually make sense.

for me 10 msw spenders is now the worst idea. In SL beta we had already discussed a thousand times that 5 msw with 5 stacks cap was terrible because of over capping and now they do the same exactly again.

if we don’t use the talent, well we lost our burst dmg and since ele blast hits sooooo much harder than LB, the extra msw you can spend on LB is absolutely useless. Also because Ice strike has a long CD, more hailstorm procs are also crap because without ice strike, hailstorm does no dmg either. Who comes up with freaking 100% modifiers? dumbo devs, seriously.

7

Once again, i agree with nearly everything you say. This has become an echo chamber lol.

The sad part right now is that they effectively broke 5 msw built as they removed the choice node. So why not just make 5 msw like it is now but let us hit for the same numbers?

This is what hit me the most. Specially thinking it will be nerfed so we wont see scary elemental blast numbers. Healing will be OP at the start expension and will be nerfed to the ground like it happened in the last 3 expensions. Without giving us any other tool to survive. AGAIN.

Interesting enough is that I don’t have all that more buttons. Most buttons actually also comes from utility but damage wise, I don’t get enough MSW to even use lightning bolt at all… maybe if lucky every 5th ele blast I could weave in a lb. LB is also really only worthwhile instead of waiting 2 sec for ele blast if you got 2 blue wolves up so it could crit for 30k :confused:

I was comparing it to some other specs i play. Even tho ice strike is only damage addition (which i basicly hate right now), already packed priority list, topped with additional utility keys makes it a bit too much imo.

Again, agree with what you say. Gameplay will be very awkward and punishing as things are the way they are right now. I hope they change things up.

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yea compared to other classes, shaman definitely has one of the highest count of active abilities and it gets more with Dragonfail. For me, not a big issue as I play enhance since BC and have tons of muscle memory over the years for lots of key binds.

Given the recent blue post about pruning half of priests kit I am afraid that shaman will be next on the chopping block to delete abilities lol

to be fair we have a lot of useless abilities because they are undertuned or flat out garbanzo.

e.g. lava burst, ice strike (just delete it already for fs sake - frost shock dmg just increased by 100% through hailstorm ez pz), totemic projection, call of elements… niche use at best :frowning:

well I continue the echo chamber, nobody cares unfortunately and give recent blue posts it looks like they have run out of time for the most part to make sweeping changes.

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Yea prepatch seems so close and it seems like we’ll be gettin another half asssed iteration to wait 2 more years to get another 1 day development for enhancement.

You would think they would spend more time on specs that definitely gets undertuned.
Shaman population is already low. Enhancement is a small fraction of shamans. Wonder why. FFS i just want to play enhancement. Please let us do arena with it. Why in hel it has to be overtuned rogue mage warrior eeeeeevery freaking expension.

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Lol again lol

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