I feel theres just too much of the classes kit inside them, i feel like the problem has slightly reversed in the sense of
We can from 99% being base and a terrible talent tree.
To really good talent trees but now base proffessions dont exist.
I think the basics need re-establishing really and we need some stuff brought to base realistically.
interupts need to be baseline at minimum.
Its crazy we are approaching a point where we could accept someone to a group and find out they cant interupt.
defensive utility such as dispersion and vampiric embrace need to be baseline.
This is going to bring a major sustain issue espically to things such as m+ affixs and more where to excel in a dps role classes may give up too much sustain and end up finding some affixs serverely difficult to sustain through
While i appreciate the hard work put into these trees, and can see theyre improving alot and theres alot of merit and praise to be given to dragonflights direction.
These would be my concerns and curious to if anyone is feeling the same concerning this.
Theyâve been doing this since Legion.
Turning baseline abilities that you had since forever into talents that now get the âoptionâ to âchooseâ.
Talent trees in MMO are always a scam by the way.
There will always be choices that outshine the others, and even without looking at templates and trying to be a tryhard, youâll often dismiss the least efficient choices yourself.
Talent trees are just here to perpetuate the illusion of choice. They are worthless, regardless in which form they come.
This would only apply to a talent tree that lets you take a full ST AoE and sustain build in one im afraid its not really true.
If you look at the top players they chsnge their talents quite frequently, its simply the average player doesnt want to.
Theres no problem with talents adding alot of abilities by choice. Or weighing up talent trees based on where they are.
Talent trees are worthwhile they provide the ability to change builds based on content, i just simply think theres some things that shouldnt be in choice.
I can see the clear paths here between singe target focus and aoe:
Can you?
Afaik this ele tree is getting a lot of positive feedback on the availability of choices which are good.
Not all are perfect, but its WiP.
Legion would be perfect if they just cut the monk out of the game and split his abilities between other classes.
Reworking talent trees and tier sets are two commonly accepted ways to introduce borrowed power into an expansion.
Or do you prefer artifact power grind and Torgast?
Its meh⌠Been there seen those talent trees in old days.
With new talent trees they just talking away many base line talents in ret which I was using since many years - taking away something doesnt feel good.
Youâre admitting that Legion wasnât perfect then, since they literally did what you just described by giving Chi torpedo & Leg sweep to Demon Hunters.
They also gave Demon Hunters the Disengage and Chakrams spells from Hunters, Metamorphosis from Warlocks, and a better Evasion from rogues with Blur.
Yes, mr. Slapface, it didnt remove all the damage MoP did to the game.
While I think I understand that you love it cause all classes got everything others had like sustain, mobility, burst cd, I feel like it made game less diverce and less fun.
for a sell out expansion they really did it poorly on all fronts. plus pandarens cant compare with cute catgirls.
for example WW got all what Warrior wanted at that time plus became their counter.
as a warrior sympathizer I took it personally.
They are still better then what we have had for a long while, its normal for every system to have flaws espically in the alpha stages of developmentâŚ
Thereâs not going to be a major overhaul of the trees: you will lose many abilities you had baseline now. âMeaningful choicesâ mean sacrifices. They may swap them over; i do think interrupts should be baseline, or at least very early in class tree.
That is something we can agree on.
The classes should have baseline utility, (I consider interrupts to be pretty standard) and that utility should be given through out Exileâs Reach, teaching what each is used for.
(Obviously exileâs reach only applies to normal classes and races)
Putting a kick in a talent tree is just wasted space on the tree, and thereâd have to be some pretty damn compelling alternatives to convince any one not to pick the interrupt.
This might be an unpopular take, but I donât think that interrupts being on the talent trees is bad by default. Do keep in mind that this is a progression system for when you are levelling up characters, which means that a lot of the toolkit is pretty much guaranteed to be there.
When it comes to the interrupt example multiple posters have brought up, think about it this way: there are raid fights that donât require you to interrupt stuff. There is going to be world content in which mobs donât cast. There are going to be arena comps that stack melees and donât leave you with anything important to interrupt. In all of those cases, itâs a good alternative to spend your points on something else thatâs going to be more useful than spending a talent point on nothing.
For all of the valid complaints about the new trees (letâs be honest, the mage base tree is a poor joke :P), I donât see anything wrong with baseline abilities filling up the early part of the trees. Having a talent point to spent every level is meant to replace the current system of getting abilities once every couple levels.
Youâre right too.
In the end we wonât actually know how good the trees feel until weâve got them in our own hands, and even if any one here is on alpha, it is all subject to change
And I do think the trees are most definitely going to make levelling feel much better, thereâs a sense of progression as you level that kinda just isnât there on live, which, i dunno about you guys but itâs really demotivating to me.
Iâve got so many classes I wanna level but I just canât bare the thought till theyâve got these trees
In classic you could pick and choose from all the trees creating a hybrid class if you wanted to. That is not an illusion of choice IMO. In DF you cannot do that so yeah the form they come in does matter.
Monkâs tree is nifty in the regard that youâre screwed either way, because you either opt to not have cooldowns, or you opt to not have damage, or you opt to not have baseline extra reduction like you should as a tank.
This is what Iâve said pretty much since they announced itâŚ
Why canât they build the trees on top of what we already had, why do I now have to pick up my main ability as the first talent?
And then to top it off, I might not even get all the spells I previously hadâŚ
For sure, there are a lot of abilities on the talent tress that could just be baseline. The spec talents can be talents because they are there to be a specialization, you pick them at 10 as an addition to your base class, but having a lot of base abilities for years now put on the class talent tree feels a bit bad.
Itâs a situation where youâre given choices but the players will always deduce what the best is and complain about why they were given options in the first place.
Like Sid Meier has said before, a developer needs to know how to defend the player from themselves, because the players will always find the easiest/strongest way of playing and then complain about it.
Also I think the most important part about talent trees isnât even the choices you have at the endgame, itâs giving a consistent feeling of genuine power progression while leveling, something that the talents system since pandaria hasnât done.
