No, Fury warrior is not in a state to be happy about right now

In a recent developer update, the developers for Warrior stated that they were happy with where Warrior was at as a class. They might very well think that, but if they do, I am very worried for the class.

For context, I mainly play Fury in high M+ keys and also raid at a Mythic level, so I will mainly write about Warrior from that perspective.

Flow of the Fury warrior design

Right now, Fury is not in a good state. The general flow and gameplay of the spec feels worse than ever with Rampage, Fury warriors main signature ability, not even being the main rage spender. We sit at 100% rage and press other rage generating abilities like Bloodbath and Crushing blow because they simply do more damage than Rampage. This feels awful.

Target cap

The idea of Fury warrior being target capped to five targets is awfully outdated. With M+ pulls becoming bigger and bigger for every iteration of the game mode (Not counting legion, that was the wild west), being target capped to five targets feels awful. With Fury being capped to five targets, one would be lead to believe that Fury would also be the best damage dealer in those situation, but I fail to remember when that has ever been the case. Fury warrior is simply outclassed by most other specs in this category, even though it by design should be one of the best at it.

Then what is even the point of the target cap? A spec wielding two greatswords should very easily be able to hit more targets, that is kinda the point of having two greatswords no?
The class aesthetic and the gameplay do not mash.

An easy fix to this would be to simply make improved Whirlwind deal reduced damage beyond eight targets instead of five, and let Fury warrior be relevant for the kind of big pulls that we see in M+.

This would be a very jubilant change for all of us that play this spec and one that I cant see anyone genuinely disagreeing with.

Utility

It is no secret that Warriors are regarded as the one class that brings the least utility to a M+ group. We bring two stuns, a very nerfed Rallying cry, and the Battle shout buff. That is it. Compared to other melee dps, that is not a lot, and dont even get me started compared to other ranged specs.

We need help here, this is very important. We might only bring at best mediocre damage, but with actual utility there would at least be a consideration to bing the class to m+ and even more to raid as well.

Suggestions for more and improved utility would be things like,

  • Buffing Rallying cry to give 20% increased HP when it only hits five targets (instead of 10% HP) . This would not make it overpowered in a raid context, but would massively increase its and warriors value in M+
  • Give Warriors a Bloodlust/Time Warp ability. This would not only be aesthetically fitting, with Warriors already having different kinds of “Shout” abilities that impact allies (and Saurfang literally bloodlusting in the BFA intro cinematic) but would also highly increase the warrior pick rate in the group finder. If by design we do not want tank roles to have access to Bloodlust, make it a talent in the Fury/Arms talent trees for example.
    If paladins can have a combat res, Warriors can have a Bloodlust.
  • Either buff or rework Battle shout. As it is today, far to few other classes even benefit from it. If we were to rank raid buffs by their impact, Battle shout would come in dead, or close to, last. Maybe it could give strength instead of Attack power?

Fury Talents

With the removal of Titan’s torment as a capstone talent for Avatar, Odyn’s fury hits like a wet noodle, and the compensatory 15% damage buff is far from being a sufficient one. The talent that replaces it now reduces the rage cost of Rampage, but this also feels very bad seeing as we do not even press Rampage as a priority button when we are capped at rage. Rage reduction does very little to help with this, and it does not nearly compensate for the removal of the Odyn’s fury interaction.

There also needs to be something done with Onslaught. It is not being picked in any form of PVE content at this point in time. It really only feels like a somewhat bigger Crushing blow, and I am already spamming those out at rapid fire speed. Either removing it and giving us more talent points to work with, or reworking it into another kind of talent would be fitting at this point.

The big elephant in the room for talents though is, you guessed it, Single Minded Fury.
No one is picking this, it does not belong in the talent tree. Simply making this a baseline passive, and freeing up the talent point, would make the tree a lot better.

And the reason for this is that we are so very constrained for talent points right now. There is far to many “mandatory” talents in the fury tree. Removing talents that no one is using, and that frankly does not feel either very inspired or fun to play with, would help a lot with this.

Summary

Warrior, mainly Fury, currently is at its worst iteration of design flow, talents and competitiveness compared to other classes. Applying some of the fixes above would massively improve the experience of the class, and also make it way more appealing for people to pick up and play.

We that stick with this class every patch love it. We feel in love with the fluidity of the baseline rotation, the insanly cool looking and fun cooldowns, the fantasy and the aesthetic of the class, but all of that is currently being eroded.

We feel directionless without proper addressing of these concerns from the developers, and something needs to be done to save the class going forward into The War Within.

-10%/+10% nerfs and buffs is not even close to the attention that we currently need.

Do anyone else agree with the sentiment? Let me and others know!

Together we can zug zug our way to change.

Zug zug.

12 Likes

Playing fury warrior in m+ at 3k+ myself I can just echo the points you made. The damage nerfs to fury in the beginning of S1 because of some bosses in the raid, without anything positive in return, turned out to be absolutely unjustified as the season progressed and scratched a lot on the confidence warrior players had in the balancing team at Blizzard. When it comes to the current PTR for Undermine(d), warriors, in general, will be even worse going into the new patch compared to classes/specs that were already great in S1. It’s mind-blowing from a player perspective that the class developers are not addressing certain dead talents like Single Minded Fury (worst offender for years now), Onslaught, Bitter Immunity, Storm of Steel etc. Therefore, from this perspective, it’s beyond surprising that the devs say that they are “overall happy” with where warrior stands right now. Personally, I am not looking forward to Undermine(d) when it comes to warrior as a class (that includes prot. as well) - there is nothing, neither damage, nor group utility, nor new or reworked ability, nor anything exciting in the upcoming patch.

5 Likes

This is by far one of the best break downs of some of the furstrations a Fury warrior faces playing this game, I’ve pretty much given up thanks to all the nerfs at the start of the season, as the previous post points out, all those nerfs were due to 2 bosses in the raid, please reflect on how silly that actually is in the grand scheme, nerfing a class to the point of being useless or allowing some people to just use the abilities of their class to help kill a boss, why can’t the class outshine others for once?
Please take this post into consideration.

2 Likes

Simply they troll the warrior community!

1 Like

Because that’s not what they mean by this. In reality, this is corporate explanation for: “we have neither the resources, capacity or knowledge to work on this topic, therefore we will highlight that we are happy right now where the class stand”.

2 Likes

Good hint
I go along almost everywhere.
but I would also like to add here that without a tuning option between M+ and Raid, unfortunately only the Raid will be considered here, as this is still used more as a reference (for whatever reason).

Take a look at the buffs and nerves from P1 and the complete Dragonflight. The adjustments very rarely only had the effect of improving the M+/Raid ratio. Mostly it was buffs&nerves that fixed the raid but then usually left a wounded child in the M+.

Do it like in PVP … Own gear, maybe even own talent scaling (why not)

I wish the best for all of us :slight_smile:

If i may add a few overall thoughts:

At this point in Time, legit just remove the Tormented-Kings-Nodes, because they get reworked (read: gutted) every major patch anyways, and literally never to any positive effect.

The redesigned Titan’s Torment is trash as well, because:
a Cooldown-Reduction on BT solves a problem that legitimately doesn’t exist, Fury already has something to press every GCD.
The Rampage-Rage-Cost Reduction fits the same general sentiment, but with some extra spice, namely:

the Reckless-Abandon-Rework seemed to address the wide disparity between RA and AM, and how no one picked AM, so they wanted to make AM more competitive, ig.
AM hinges on Rage-Throughput, and new Titan’s Torment ACTIVELY WORKS AGAINST THAT by reducing the Rage Cost of our Main Spender, which also doesn’t in any way contribute to Gameplay, because you always have had enough Rage to comfortably press Rampage often enough.

It’s all a contradictory mess and genuinely leaves me wondering if the Warrior Dev’s have played more than Exile’s Reach on the Class…

1 Like

ya put allot of the thoughts i had myself in to words, there is so much more one could also add…

Execute - basicly the most useless ability fury posses 3 talent points that are essentially a waste of space
( that and single minded fury… honestly that talent was just to please some classic fanboys)

Bloodthirst / rageing blow - these are a problem abilitys, why? beacuse the last two expansions every tier ( ok not the first of dragon flight… but lets be honest that was bull) has circled arround bloodthirst do this and that and this increases it’s damage over and over and over, and this flows in to the talents Vicious contempt and Reckless abandon making is essentially impossible to ever deviate from that talent path.

This whole set up has left fury in a state of constant entropy.
i will also say that fury above all of other specs and classes i play is the most spammy finger breaking rotation there is, god i miss the tier three of shadow lands with odyns fury… that was so good, slowed the phase down and still gave me those satesfying hits / cleave

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