No new city for Night elves - Bel'Ameth the Capital village

[Starstride-nordrassil (Starstride)]

New Bel’ameth village, portals are up now.

Stormwind

Bel’Ameth

Maps too:

Wowhead phrases it as:

Site of the new Night Elf capital city at the foot of Amirdrassil in the Dragon Isles, the area includes the town of Bel’amath, Belanaar harbor, Arlithrien Lodge, the Twilight Watchtower and Evenfall Watchtowers, and even even a suite of portals to other Night Elf connected locations throughout Azeroth.

Implying that it will develop into a city.

Finally a Night elf child, which is basically the same model as a Ngihtborne child and blood elf and … race child just with the appropriate racial features

@Kaiine-argent-dawn

The Zin-Azshari Highborne were directly under Azshara’s spell. She could outmatch any of them and she knew it. The doubts are those outside of the city. They did rebel with relative ease; it was only the ancestors of the Blood Elves who were at a greater risk.

I quite like that you’re a night elf enthusiast, and also into the Highborne lore, night elven fans of the kaldorei pre-sundering era, and the kaldorei as a whole use to be far more prevalent, so few of us into the lore side of things now - there is a price to pay for years of neglect.

Indeed, those outside the city were not so easily held by the corruption of the legion, and we find many more rebellions, she did send the legion against every other city in the realm, including the exclusive Highborne city of Eldre’thalas - remember that is the only fully Highborne city we know of, - that alone makes me think it was something incredible too. Although Suramar would take the cake because of the order of Elune and the effigies and structures they would build to Elune.

@Kaiine-argent-dawn

But it’s already a story that’s well done and well told with the Blood Elves and the Nightborne getting a slice as well. I mean, Blizzard told a far more in depth story about the Sunreaver Magi using the Isle of Thunder tools to create a brand new generation of Arcane and Blood Golems. Trying to re-tell something, that already existed with the Blood Elves is just shoddy writing because we know Blizzard have already told us that story through the Sin’dorei and the Sunreavers.

I disagree on that, arcane golem, like much of arcane isn’t specific to the sin’dorei only. the fact htatyou include nightborne is an indication this comes from the kaldorei empire.

now if they had done blood golems and blood magic, heavily focused in on phoneix/fire magic, I would agree with you, but arcane constructs are clearly something that night elves use, as evidenced by the Azshara night elf and the Nightborne.

Arcane is broad topic, there is enough to go around the different groups, but we shouldn’t forget htat the kaldorei empire has a lot ore arcane knowledge available to it than the high elves have currently, which means that magical wise, there isn’t much that would not have been done by the night elves first… but isle of thunder is very likely one of those things, the whole mana tapping of living creatures might be another … as some techniques the likes of Illidan developed.

@Kaiine-argent-dawn

Exactly. This is why Nightborne going Horde was the best option. Night Elf players don’t think so now; but as a Shen’dralar fan - it was the absolute right call to distance the two.

Shen’dralar need their own thing. Not leeching off Suramar or the Nightborne.

There are disadvantages too, Shen’dralar need and do have their own thing, tit just needs to be made visible to us in game, rather than in the lore only.

Still I don’t see why the nightborne needed to go horde in order for the Shen’dralar to be unique and specific… they could have done both - we have multiple factions of night elven druids, mages and priests - but we know the likelihood that they would have done something distinctive for the Shen’dralar is a lot more slim if the Nightborne had gone wit the night elves.

But tbh, this would only be a good thing if what the Shen’dralar end up showing is just as good or better than what we have in Suramar.

@Kaiine-argent-dawn

The quest indicates that the Golems were outlawed in Quel’Thalas a long time ago.
I’m glad that they went down this route because otherwise Shen’dralar would just be purple Blood Elves.

They still use golems in Quel’thalas, i think it was implied more the way (and location it was used) for example, if you know the golem has a security risk, not a great idea to take a class and use it in territory with enemies around, but nothing wrong with using it in a secure location where it isn’t going to be explloited so, secondly for war in particular… it’s an intersting line they used, i wonder how well thought out it was, or if itw as just htrown in to make the night elf look out of date, forgetting how the lore had described nighte lves.

they did a lot of stuff in cata that didn’t always match the lore well. or i shoudl say rather, portrayed the lore. sure waht they did isn’t necessarily lore contradadictory, it doens’t mean night elves of hte kaldorei empire and others weren’t great in their field, after all the reality there is those night elves in Azshara have only been training as magi for about a week or 2 after 10,000 years of no practice. Not conversant iwth the progress of their enemies… coudl also be they were overconfident, not expecting a true mage to be there, after all, Azshara isn’t exaclty wher eyou’d expect to find horde magi, which until that time were either Forsaken or Blood elf.

@Kaiine-argent-dawn

Shen’dralar need individuality and I think, the core is to tackle their name; “those that remain hidden.” What is actually hidden in the Eldre’Thalas Vaults? Did the Shen’dralar spend most of their time in those Vaults, ensuring the tomes were locked away?

And of course, have Azshara attack Eldre’Thalas and then move onto Quel’Thalas. That way, you can finally link Shen’dralar and Sin’dorei.

Shen’dralar could be the ones to teleport to Quel’Thalas, as Alliance where Estulan, Mordent or Vestia act as neutral Ambassadors for Lor’themar’s council.

It’s an interesting addition to an expansion on the Shen’dralar, but i would hope that what we get is ore than a vault - I want to see them use all that lost and hidden knowledge magi today scour the earth to find scraps of, and engineer those wonders Mordant Evenshade talks about, that the lore indicates the Shen’dralar would make.

I want them to show us something spectacular for the night elves in the arcane once more, but this time, make it night elven, not a sub-race and part of the night elves - I don’t care if it’s the Darnassian faction that’s doing it, or if the Highborne become their own faction like the Illidari, and the character in character creation can choose whether his night elf is a Highborne faction night elf or an Amirdrassil faction one or an Illidari one. in which case it would be nice if there were certain new customisations associated with the faction - like star effects, similar to Tyrande’s night warrior and other features, hairstyles, jewellery etc.

[Thalstarion-argent-dawn]

@Starstride-nordrassil

I quite like that you’re a night elf enthusiast, and also into the Highborne lore, night elven fans of the kaldorei pre-sundering era, and the kaldorei as a whole use to be far more prevalent, so few of us into the lore side of things now - there is a price to pay for years of neglect.

There’s more of us then you’d think, many just ended up taking their leave over the years either temporarily or permanently due to the game just…not handling many aspects of the story and the playable races particularly well.

I’m only back to WoW because FFXIV managed to mishandle its more intriguing story elements even more badly and the market for MMO’s is fairly dry at the moment. I’m hoping one of the upcoming contenders proves more engaging for Elf enthusiasts.

[anon13559813]

@Starstride-nordrassil

I disagree on that, arcane golem, like much of arcane isn’t specific to the sin’dorei only.

Sin’dorei are just renamed Quel’dorei… Quel’dorei were just descendants from the night elf highbornes and they split up from the Kaldorei empire after being exiled for using arcane magic. They relocated in EK and became the High/Blood Elves, where they transformed under the influence of the sun well. The arcane golems you are talking about are inherited by the Sin’dorei. I think you will enjoy blood elves a lot based on what you like about the ancient night elf lore. The nightborne are also a group of the ancient night elves, who kept using Arcane magic and shielded Suramar from the Legion attack for a long time.

So… If you like the ancient arcane history of the Kaldorei, you’d be better off playing Blood elf or Nightborne, because Night elves currently in the lore have been rejecting arcane magic for a long time, and only made an exception now in the heritage armor quest. Some of the strongest mages in the entire lore are currently Nightborne and Blood elves, if you disregard Medivh. The architecture of these 2 also matches the ancient kaldorei stuff too, just the colours are a bit different for the blood elves.

The night elf architecture/style/vibe however is suiting another type of Player, and instead of having more of the same stuff, why don’t you pick what you like currently the most instead of holding unto ancient lore so much

@Thalstarion-argent-dawn

There’s more of us then you’d think, many just ended up taking their leave over the years either temporarily or permanently due to the game just…not handling many aspects of the story and the playable races particularly well.

M8, you are playing a highborne lorewise. They are the same people, but just look different now and changed their culture over time. Why would you wanna be part of the Kaldorei, who exiled them?

Here something to read for you both:

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dath%27Remar_Sunstrider

[Aedrion-doomhammer]

You said it. All spot on. I can only wish that Metzen will bring back some semblance of logic and immersion to this destroyed world. Because for six years, Warcraft has been methodically erased and ruined by a team of hackjobs intent on forcing their ideology on us like a bunch of fanatics.

I know it can be brought back, but as with any healing, the disease needs to go before the body can recover. Maybe the rumours of some ‘writers’ being moved off WoW to Overwatch are true. They can go destroy that franchise instead then.

[Åza-ysera]

@Aedrion-doomhammer

I know it can be brought back, but as with any healing, the disease needs to go before the body can recover. Maybe the rumours of some ‘writers’ being moved off WoW to Overwatch are true.

Yeah, their childish ideas are truly better placed in Overwatch. It’s light writing and harder to ruin if you have zero experience and skills at all. Warcraft writing jobs shouldn’t be given to any random letter cowboy to fill in avoid. I’d rather wait a couple of months longer for a new expansion or patch from a smaller but more sophisticated and talented team than have one hot garbage after another straight off the assembly line thrown at me with the things that I as a subscriber paid for with my money isn’t worth even half the financial support I gave.

[Elme-outland]

@Starstride-nordrassil

Finally a Night elf child, which is basically the same model as a Ngihtborne child and blood elf and … race child just with the appropriate racial features

This is Finel. The last one. Might be only reason why I would continue playing in Seeds of Renewal. Just to see poor girl who lost everything and everyone thanks to horde butchers and lunatics.

@Aedrion-doomhammer

You said it. All spot on. I can only wish that Metzen will bring back some semblance of logic and immersion to this destroyed world. Because for six years, Warcraft has been methodically erased and ruined by a team of hackjobs intent on forcing their ideology on us like a bunch of fanatics.

I am sorry if I will disapoint you with what I will say but: Metzen is back in Blizzard for more then a year now. If he wanted to do something, we would not get new neutral city of Bel’Ameth

@Åza-ysera

Yeah, their childish ideas are truly better placed in Overwatch. It’s light writing and harder to ruin if you have zero experience and skills at all. Warcraft writing jobs shouldn’t be given to any random letter cowboy to fill in avoid. I’d rather wait a couple of months longer for a new expansion or patch from a smaller but more sophisticated and talented team than have one hot garbage after another straight off the assembly line thrown at me with the things that I as a subscriber paid for with my money isn’t worth even half the financial support I gave.

No need for me to say anything. You said it all

[Elme-outland]

@anon13559813

Sin’dorei are just renamed Quel’dorei… Quel’dorei were just descendants from the night elf highbornes and they split up from the Kaldorei empire after being exiled for using arcane magic.

Wrong again. Quel’dorei are Night Elfs. Upper cast yes, but in everything else completely the same as rest of Night elfs.
Sin’dorei are something what devolved from Que’ldorei, just like Nightborne. The true Quel’dorei are those who re joined Night Elfs in Cata. Everything else besides Kaldorei (where Quel’dorei belong) are NOT Night elfs
Learn this please so I don’t have to correct you at every turn

[anon13559813]

@Elme-outland

Quel’dorei are Night Elfs.

Instead of argueing, just go read the story yourself
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/High_elf

[Elme-outland]

Don’t have to. It is perfectly clear. High Elfs are the name which exiled Quel’dorei took for themselves after they have being exiled and after mutation.
Quel’dorei: Children of noble birth. COMPLETELY the same as every other Night Elf. Go look Mordent Evenshade. Now HE is Quel’dorei. Tell me the difference between him and blood or high elf?
I don’t understand why is it so hard for some people to understand this.
I’ll say it like this. Kaldorei empire stretched throughout pre sundering Kalimdor. Every Night Elf was the sme. Queen Azshara was Kaldorei and Quel’dorei (night elf) Xavius was both and the same, Lady vashj was both and same. Even Kael’thas grandfather was the same.
Quel’dorei literary means what I told you. Childen of noble birth while rest of the Kaldorei (night Elf sociaty was called lowborn)
I can’t paint you clearer picture. High Elves are devolved Quel’dorei just like Nightborne. Their physical apearence completely changed. Their faces are different, their high is smaller etc etc.
Not even the same species anymore as Kaldorei (Night Elfs) from which you are descendants but mutated

[Lutia-draenor]

maybe wow can take a page from ff 14 and have the new night elf city be a community project like how ishgard was rebuilt by the crafters i always enjoy seeing a city get built over patches

[Livía-aerie-peak (Livía)]

There are lot of places in WoW that could have gotten that treatment.

[Kaiine-argent-dawn]

@Starstride-nordrassil

I disagree on that, arcane golem, like much of arcane isn’t specific to the sin’dorei only. the fact htatyou include nightborne is an indication this comes from the kaldorei empire.

now if they had done blood golems and blood magic, heavily focused in on phoneix/fire magic, I would agree with you, but arcane constructs are clearly something that night elves use, as evidenced by the Azshara night elf and the Nightborne.

Arcane is broad topic, there is enough to go around the different groups, but we shouldn’t forget htat the kaldorei empire has a lot ore arcane knowledge available to it than the high elves have currently, which means that magical wise, there isn’t much that would not have been done by the night elves first… but isle of thunder is very likely one of those things, the whole mana tapping of living creatures might be another … as some techniques the likes of Illidan developed.

The issue is that the Sin’dorei / Blood + Arcane Golem story is told well and has been developed to be something that was a beautiful story. It developed the Sin’dorei Magisters very well and it worked.

To me, the Shen’dralar trying to do that would never be as good because the story was never truly about their Golems.

Yes, I do mention the Nightborne, but it’s only a small 1/4 of the Arcane Golem story. The main story for that does truly belong to the Sin’dorei Mages. We have early quests, detailing how they were created, gathering “Arcane Cores” for a “new” (TBC) version for them and then in MoP, we get the Blood Golems, which are a further development.

Like I say, we have other areas for the Shen’dralar; they don’t need that story. Hell, we’ve got Ancients of the Arcane, which fit them perfectly. They absolutely don’t need Arcane Golems.
The Sin’dorei Arcane Golems and the Shen’dralar Ancients of the Arcane could make for a beautiful combined force, when fighting for the Sunwell (providing that it’s Azshara that attacks both Eldre and Quel’Thalas.

@Starstride-nordrassil

I quite like that you’re a night elf enthusiast, and also into the Highborne lore, night elven fans of the kaldorei pre-sundering era, and the kaldorei as a whole use to be far more prevalent, so few of us into the lore side of things now - there is a price to pay for years of neglect.

Indeed, those outside the city were not so easily held by the corruption of the legion, and we find many more rebellions, she did send the legion against every other city in the realm, including the exclusive Highborne city of Eldre’thalas - remember that is the only fully Highborne city we know of, - that alone makes me think it was something incredible too. Although Suramar would take the cake because of the order of Elune and the effigies and structures they would build to Elune.

I don’t like Lowborn Night Elves, I’ll be honest.

For me, the Shen’dralar / Highborne are the part of the Night Elf lore which truly are the backbone behind why the Night Elves are interesting. I find the Lowborns hypocritical in their views; whilst they judge the Sin’dorei and Shal’dorei, yet allow their own to practice magic.
Yet the Shen’dralar don’t judge the Blood Elves. Yes, Tortheldrin incinerated one, but that’s not judging them for who they are. I do think Shen’dralar and Sin’dorei have a lot in common with Arcane and Fel Magic. It’s just Blizzard are very stubborn about them being similar and wants to focus on the differences between Shen’dralar and Sin’dorei.

@Starstride-nordrassil

They still use golems in Quel’thalas, i think it was implied more the way (and location it was used) for example, if you know the golem has a security risk, not a great idea to take a class and use it in territory with enemies around, but nothing wrong with using it in a secure location where it isn’t going to be explloited so, secondly for war in particular… it’s an intersting line they used, i wonder how well thought out it was, or if itw as just htrown in to make the night elf look out of date, forgetting how the lore had described nighte lves.

No. The actual methods of the Night Elf Apprentices were methods that were outlawed in Quel’Thalas some time ago

[anon13559813]

@Kaiine-argent-dawn

For me, the Shen’dralar / Highborne are the part of the Night Elf lore which truly are the backbone behind why the Night Elves are interesting.

I still don’t understand what the problem is with Sindorei/Queldorei and Nightborne. Is it just that OP doesn’t like how they transformed aesthetically? They don’t seem to be weaker, quite the opposite. They are the strongest force of the horde currently I believe

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

Wowhead💙

[Aedrion-doomhammer]

The real Tyrande would have exiled Hamuul and anything that even looks like it might be horde. Remember when she was a xenophobic isolationist badass for 10,000 years? I remember.

Remember when she was ready to die killing horde for the sake of divine retribution?

Any excuse for this choice is nothing more than lampshading a plothole before moving on. Lazy.

[Kotara-stormrage]

@Aedrion-doomhammer

The real Tyrande would have exiled Hamuul and anything that even looks like it might be horde. Remember when she was a xenophobic isolationist badass for 10,000 years? I remember.

Remember when she was ready to die killing horde for the sake of divine retribution?

Any excuse for this choice is nothing more than lampshading a plothole before moving on. Lazy.

That’s what makes it feel so weird, one lore-year ago (Maybe two), pretty much the entire Kaldorei race was willing to die fighting the Horde for vengeance and their homeland, and now they not only scurry off to the dragon isles (“They’re still fighting in Kalimdor” in a book is pretty meaningless if none of it shows in-game), but they also allow the Horde into their new home city?

What exactly happened to bring that about? And no, “They helped defeat Fyrakk” isn’t enough, the Alliance helped depose Garrosh, scare off Sylvanas, and fixed up the sunwell, just try going into Org or Silvermoon city to see what welcome we get there… (Hint: It’s not a meaningless debuff)

[Kaiine-argent-dawn]

I think it’s more to do with the Night Elves being some of the first most notable Magi on Azeroth and he’s right.

Now, most of what they had went down with the Naga, during the Sundering and we see protected (Suramar), revitalised (Silvermoon) and current (Eldre’Thalas) situations for all the core Highborne groups.

My point is that Sin’dorei and Shal’dorei already have very specific niches and regardless of what was 10,000 years ago - that is irrelevant to modern day, sundered-Azeroth. So, Shen’dralar having Arcane Golems is irrelevant because that story is so specific and advanced with the Sin’dorei that telling it through the Shen’dralar is a waste of time.

Shen’dralar need their own thing. Being named “Those that remain hidden” and having Ancients of the Arcane is something that can differ them from the Sin’dorei and Shal’dorei.

@Kotara-stormrage

That’s what makes it feel so weird, one lore-year ago (Maybe two), the entire race was willing to die fighting the Horde for vengeance and their homeland, and now they not only scurry off to the dragon isles (“They’re still fighting there” in a book is pretty meaningless if none of it shows in-game), but they also allow the Horde in their new home city?

What exactly happened to bring that about? And no, “They helped defeat Fyrakk” isn’t enough, the Alliance helped depose Garrosh, scare off Sylvanas, and fixed up the sunwell, just try going into Org or Silvermoon city to see what welcome we get there… (Hint: It’s not a meaningless debuff)

I think Bel’ameth being “neutral” is akin to Silvermoon going neutral in Midnight.

Neutral cities and locations were never going to be a one way thing. If a Horde City was going neutral, than an Alliance one would as well. I guess Blizzard have chosen that Silvermoon and Bel’ameth are those neutral locations.

I suspect that Silvermoon will be Horde leaning, as Bel’ameth is Alliance leaning. So, after Midnight - Alliance players can go to Silvermoon, but they get a debuff, just like Horde players get in Bel’ameth.

[Kotara-stormrage]

@Kaiine-argent-dawn

I think Bel’ameth being “neutral” is akin to Silvermoon going neutral in Midnight.

I suspect that Silvermoon will be Horde leaning, as Bel’ameth is Alliance leaning. So, after Midnight - Alliance players can go to Silvermoon, but they get a debuff, just like Horde players get in Bel’ameth.

Yeah, it’s probably that, i just feel that due to its… let’s say “loaded” history, Bel’Ameth is an odd choice to be the first, but TBH i find that, all things considered, the whole “Let’s be friends”-thing, while a logical choice for gameplay reasons, has been overly abrupt lorewise, making it more gradual would have helped it go over better with the players.

I wonder what debuff we’ll get in Silvermoon… “The Blood elves are looking down their noses at you, you’re really wearing that?” or something?

[Kaiine-argent-dawn]

@Kotara-stormrage

let’s say “loaded” history, Bel’Ameth is an odd choice to be the first

Probably Elf Location for Elf Location to be honest.

They knew Silvermoon was going neutral and the only suitable swap would be an Alliance Elf location. Telogrus is…well Telogrus.

Bel’ameth is new, so it can start it’s lore by being semi-friendly to the Horde.

@Kotara-stormrage

I wonder what debuff we’ll get in Silvermoon… “The Blood elves are looking down their noses at you, you’re really wearing that?” or something?

Probably something similar to be honest

I suppose we should expect a similar treatment for the new Silvermoon, in terms of who is involved. Illidari Blood Elves like Kayn and Darkfallen Quel/Sin’dorei, like Velonara as they are sons and daughters of Quel’Thalas; just like Bel’ameth also has Illidari Night Elves like Altrius and Darkfallen Kaldorei like Delaryn.

[Nemmar-eonar (Nemmar)]

I guess Amirdrassil should’ve spawned with a whole city already built.