No, don’t take stuff from the other elves to give to the Night elves, that just makes all elves the same, let the Night elves be (Relatively) primitive and savage, but let them also be effective. (That is the biggest problem with Night elves, they haven’t been allowed to be effective in battle)
The Night elves’ big arcane magic era is 10,000 years behind them, they are only very recently (By elven reckoning) allowing mages back into their society, so they won’t have platoons of mages and a bunch of magical constructs at the ready, just leave that to the other elves, the Night elves are the ones who either get into a melee and kick backside (Stupid language filter) or put an arrow in you before you know anybody’s there.
Those things are way cooler than poncing around in a robe tossing fireworks, anyway.
But Night Elf Mages of current day do have some areas where they can stand out from the others and not having anything taken away from the others.
I can’t stress enough, but the Ancients of the Arcane are just one area that fits perfectly for Night Elf Mages. They don’t work for Nightborne or Blood Elf Mages and certainly don’t work for Void Elf Mages.
But, as you say - I don’t support taking stuff from one race and putting it on another. Especially, where false tales come into play. Taking from the Blood Elf Mages is one of the worst things you can do, because like it or not, Blood Elf Mage is one of the most core race/class combos in the game. Hell, the first quest NPC on Sunstrider Isle is a female mage.
Well, i’m thinking in broad lines here, when all variations of Elves are brought together, to differentiate them and not having them turn into a big pointy-eared mess, they should have specializations, and not get bogged down in “Those elves have a couple of this class as well”.
Imagine it, an army with Night elf warriors and hunters, Blood elf paladins and priests, Void elves as obvious void-experts (Shadow priests and maybe warlocks?), and the archetypal mages from both Nightborne and Blood elves.
Just clumping the different elf species together into one pile, with each having a bit of everything just takes away from all of them.
Yes, I see where your coming from. As much as I don’t like them anymore, the Blood Elf Priesthood would be cool to see, especially if the Blood Elf Priest from the TBC cinematic was brought in, like Maraad, Qiana and Olin.
I think what Starstride is saying is that because Night Elves were the first of all Elves, they are the best at everything.
I don’t agree with that broad assessment myself.
That doesn’t make sense, the Night elves abandoned anything arcane after the sundering, 10,000 years ago, the mages they had left at that point in time went on to become Blood/Void elves, and a handful in Eldre’thalas who only just returned to NE society.
Besides, being amazing at literally everything would turn the Night elves into… shudders humans, and we all know how cringe their racial “Mary Sue”-ness is.
That’s true, which is why I say that we should focus on what the Night Elves do very well in the current times, not in times long past.
I mean, Blood Elves were using Shadow Magic in Silvermoon, during the events of TBC…and indeed, the Sunfury were using Shadow Magic on Outland, but does that mean we re-introduce Shadow Magic as a core thing in Blood Elf society? I did love the concept of a Dusk Priest, which is why I made my Blood Elf Priest a Shadow Priest, but the actual lore for Blood Elf Priests now is that they are basically Human Priests, but with pointy ears.
I do think Night Elves should be the core race when it comes to Demon Hunters though. Thalassian Warlocks are already a core established concept and with Shinfel Blightsworn…it’s not difficult to see why
The nelf image is one of the best things about wow in my opinion. I know they were sort of a knockoff of the wood elves in Warhammer but they came into their own very well. What damages them are the fanbase who want them constantly propped up. Honestly, I really believe it would have been better to leave them out of at least some of the past plots.
No, night elves aren’t wood elves, and were never intended to be just wood elves. I didn’t design them, I didn’t envision, and I’m sure if they wanted them to be wood elves they’d have called them that. They had no trouble calling high elves as high elves.
They wanted something unique and special for night elves, and they have made their intention clear, both in this excerpt from an interview and what they laid out for night elves.
Form the creation, to the pre-sundering era, to the long vigil, to the current era. From priest, to mage, to druid, to demon hunter.
But that doesn’t mean the other Elves are made to be weaker than Night Elves and have their cores reduced to nothing in favor of night elves getting everything. What does that do for the Blood Elf fanbase, as a prime example? How does that make Blood Elf fans feel, if all your going to do is reduce them and take away their core aspects and just give it to night elves for no real reason? It shouldn’t happen and Kotara is right.
It doesn’t make sense and changing the status quote of Mary Sue-ness from Humans to Night Elves is extremely bad.
I express my desires for the Shen’dralar as a means to improve them alone. Not to make another race lesser than. I never have done that and I never will.
Ah but the beauty of the night elves is that they have all these aspects. you have the relatively more savage demon hunters and sentinels, and this is contrasted by the more serene and sophisticated druid and Highborne mage. Why? because it’s a full race, and has several components.
The whole point of the pre-sundering era and living 10,000 years, is that you’re not small, or insignificant, there is a lot to you, and many parts, that have depth.
To minimise it into only serene druids, or only stuffy Highborne, or only savage demon hunters or fierce sentinels is taking a big whole and just leaving a small part… while you get your other races boasting far bigger visions and completeness.
Why should blood levs have both forests and cities, boast great mages and also great hunters and ranger wood elf types? , can be as savage as we saw the fel elves and sunfury elves, and as high class as we saw the blood elf magisters, but night elves should only be primitive and savage (relatively) just nothing else.
See, once you start taking away from the original vision you just keep taking, , their effectiveness went the same time their balance and contrast went. They stopped being effective, and they stopped having the arcane counterpart to nature, the fierce counterpart to peaceful, the savage counterpart tranquil, the sophisticated counterpart to humble. the civilization urban counterpart to rural.
They had all this in the lore, but in game they only have 1 half, and it’s not the pretty half.
just ruins and bare forests - is not the pretty half
just weak and ineffective is not the good half
the suffering but none of the glory or rewards, that’s not the good stuff.
It’s reduced, and we should want reduced.
Don’t fall into the trap, it’s the night elf fantasy and race that is under fire here, while the blood elves get more whole, more powerful , more versatile and more complete, they keep chopping away at the night eves, at this rate, they’ll eventually be included as some small section in the true elf party in Quel’thalas, oh the relics fading out, while the blood elves look brighter and more complete, and you’d have none of their fans having any trouble telling you how wonderful they are, while you’ve allowed yourself to be talked into losing everything by the myriad blood elf fans all to eager for a reduced night elf vision that just makes their favourites look even better.
Then you’d be grateful for the small scraps they give, the once in a while, a night elf doesn’t look totally humiliated, and actually does something. The one out of 5 or one out 10, and you’d think it’s progress and be happy.
it’s not a matter of made weaker… humans are weaker than vrykul, does that mean vrykul are better? No.
Cos it’s not just about bio stats and accomplishments. Accomplishments are only truly wroth it the moment they are earned, afterwards they mean little, you have to live up to them.
Look at the Draenei vs the Man’ari Eredar - one is more powerful than the other, does that mean they are better?
The elves are not all the same, the high elves were weakened by their exile, the nightborne are mutated by their
But if your wanting to claim Blood Elf feats as something that Night Elves should just take because -reasons-, then I’m sorry - but you are avoiding the point. Why should Blood Elf fans want that?
Stop attacking the Blood Elf fanbase when you throw the stones of “lose your arcane / mage stuff and hand it over to night elves.” Blood Elf fans have every right to tell you to shut up and go back to your forests. It’s extremely childish to conduct an attack like that.
And the high elves were weakened, before they managed to establish Quel’Thalas. Once that was sorted…their strength, will and magical mastery was all but restored. What happened their is absolutely no different to the Shen’dralar who also got weaker and grew lethargic, before Immol’thar was imprisoned.
I am going to almost quote Ion here; If you want Arcane Golems, Fire Magic, Blood Magic and Pheonix Magic mastery - the Blood Elf Mages are there waiting for you.
These are standard Blood Elf Magister feats and under no circumstance should any of these be lost to night elves. Night Elf Mages should always lose, when it comes to trying to challenge and use this sort of magic because it’s part of the Blood Elf Mage legacy.
Illidari blood elves will count as fel elves here, but i was simply referring to blood elves having a savage side to them too. And the fel elves in outland as well as the Illidari blood elves are examples of this.
No you want night elves to copy all stuff from all other elven offshots and make them the prime predators superior to the others. Blizzard can’t make that happen for obvious reasons.
It’s a comparative example, since most of the decriers are blood elf fans, it makes sense to use examples in terms of blood elves.
However most of the people running the narrative on savage, primitive and feral night elves tend to be blood elf fans, and monster lovers. And usually out of rivalry,. off course it’s not every blood elf fan.
And most of the posters I see insisting night elves are wood elves and should only have rural areas, are also blood elf posters.
Indeed, they got stronger again, but not like before, the whole point about races like Vrykul and night elves are showing a stronger origin (not every race is like that), high elves, like humans in this case are devolved versions of their originals.
I don’t think of humans any less than I do of Vrykul, in fact I think of them more, but they are weaker than Vrykul - that’s just the lore, it makes no difference. One of the greatest individuals on Azeroth is human, despite all the race’s innate weaknesses.
Totally agreed with him there.
And if you want star and moon arcane magic, highborne, moonguard, druids, forests, night cities, walking trees, female warrior princesses, warglaive fel wielding sorceror hunters, wardens, satyr, naga etc - then night elves are for you.
What exactly are you talking about being lost to night elves… i fele we are really not getting each other here. As far as i am aware, i am not mentioning blood elves losing anything to ngihte lves.
The world isn’t mutually exclusive. If blood elves have arcane golems, it doesn’t mean night elves don’t have them or humans don’, when they do in the lore. What night elves don’t have is blood golems, but mogu do, and so do blood elves. That’s just how the lore puts it.
i don’t go because blood elves have farstriders, night elves shouldn’t have rangers and archers or hunters, and vice versa.
nor do I go because blood elves have a huge forest, night elves shouldn’t or vice versa.
sometimes the forests are very similar, sometimes they are not, not everything is a unique version on one group vs the other, there is a lot of overlap, because they are elves. When you compare them to humans and trolls, then you have much bigger notieceable differences.
Most of arcane magic is the same, and it comes from the night elves, yet their are branches that certain groups specialise in. Night elves don’t specialise in blood magic or fire magic to the extent blood elves have. But no one does star magic like night elves/nightborne do. But for night elves, it’s not just their mages, it’s their priests and druids too. yet on the other hand no one does arcane time magic like nightborne do, but time magic is a part of all mages - but this is the Nightborne’s speciality. no one does void magic in the arcane like void elves… you get my drift.
They are off shoots for a reason, they don’t have the whole, only parts. But blizzard has already shown what each group has. some are smaller and a narrower scope than others… it’s just how it is.
that you woudl get offended at this is absurd. You love blood elves for what it has, are you now jealous that night elves have a bigger scope? It’s pointless, you fell in love with blood elves for being blood elves, Night elves already had all this stuff when blood elves were introduced as a horde race in TBC. Will you then be jealous of orcs and humans too? or undead? All have a larger scope than blood elves currently.
Or is it not quite clear to you, by ALL those lore quotes, pictures, and extracts that night elf fans want the quality and calibre of all of the race, not just some. in the novels as well as in the game
Yes because you want night elves to become superior in ALL fields not just the niche they used to fill which is quite selfish reagrding the overall lore. Orcs are crap at magic. Their field is being exceptional warriors and shamans mostly, some warlocks too but that is it. They aren’t great rogues but Garona is still prominent. You want something that covers everything? play a human.
And? Doesthat trigger you? Are not orcs superior in some ways, how about titans? or First ones? What about vrykul?
Blood elves as high elves acheive a lot in spite of difficulties and set backs, it’s part oftheir charm.
only arrogant people are obsessed with superiority. if the lore places night elves also , then so it is.
if they then get beaten at every turn, how superior do you think they are? Despite their higher capacity and better genes?
Is not some of the issues here that night elves aren’t reflecting what or how they are described as in game? yes, those “superior” night elves, more complete than blood elves, older and wiser, more accomplished, having done lots more, yes, those night elves with their powerful magics and knowledge - yes those night elves, are beaten every single time you meet them and fight them in game.
For all the heroics you read about, in game it’s a different story. They are are rubbish, they may be superior on paper, but they are definitely inferior where it actually counts. If they weren’t do you think topics like this would exist…
Or do you don’t realise we tend to beat all those super powerful beings, like Azahra, kil’jaedan, Gul’dan, Deathwing etc etc, the Nightborne - but we get to play some of them too, do you not think they’re still quite powerful and superior to your inferior blood elf or inferior human, yet who is left standing at the end of the day?
Is stats and power all that count/ or knowledge and age alone?
Why is it that when I speak with a fair few blood elf fans I get this horrible feeling from them, like they have a superior complex - other words for this is arrogance and pride. They get so offended at the hint that night elves are better at like anything. Then others go out of their way to try and prove to us all night elves are the lowest of beings. It’s not attractive
We never said we are superior. We know we are the best at arcane magic, rangers and the only actual competent Horde Paladins. You want to take that away and give the arcane magic thing to the night elves full time when their things is being rural wood elves in the forest that have the best druids and tree friends.
