No new city for Night elves - Bel'Ameth the Capital village

Community General Discussion
808

The blood elves were non-existent in the Suramar storyline through the bulk of it shown in 7.0, not racially or factionally, it wasn’t their affair, just like Kaiine is insisting that Quel’thalas isn’t a night elven affair (though she now includes the Shal’dorei who also have no ties to Quel’thalas. And their role in 7.1 was no more than that of the alliance forces. It was also amended when blizzard decided in a meeting during the 7.1 development implementation cycle, that we would get sub-races and that nightborne won’t join the alliance - they tweaked some of the lines and NPCs to start hinting at that. Surely you noticed blood elves came literally out of nowhere. But they came

This is if you are talking about the factions. If you are talking about racially, then it’s off course nonsense, as night elves are part of the Nightborne forces as you could clearly see and racially, Nightborne are a night elven sub set race.

Anyway, how can we now then say night elves shouldn’t play a part of Quel’thalas factionally? They should. Racially I would expect night elves there through both the nightborne and Darnassian night elven factions - but more on an individual basis. On a factional basis, I would expect night elves to get similar involvement and relevant involvement as blood elves got.

@Kaiine I don’t buy the excuse we shouldn’t see anything of night elves. We’ve seen blood elves in EVERY single expansion, have focused and relevant roles since their own expansion in TBC, and night elves were the NPC trash for Ghostlands made for blood elves to show how good they are, and were also the NPC teachers as Illidari.

To then come and say night elves should be cut out entirely when they’ve always played a part in blood elf affairs, and blood elves have played a part in night elf affairs when they got into bed with the Nightborne - is not playing fair at all. And silly

Off course night elves should be there, the recent involvement of night elves does not make up for the neglect and atrophy of the race so far, and Bel’ameth is NOT a satisfying conclusion to be just cut out of affairs - which is one of the MAJOR points of this topic.

No, it would be symptomatic of the first 6 expansions neglect, to cut them out entirely of the next 3, and refuse to return the favour shown the blood elves. Especially after this rather shoddy display for them.

So blood elves continue to be involved in every expansion and get a major expansion with no night elf factional involvement?

If the Blood elves can strongly help the night elven sub race in Legion, then the Night elven faction should be around to strongly help the blood elven sub race in Midnight. not be cut out.

You say this, and yet we’ve seen powerful and frequent involvement of blood elves every single expansion. Void elves, as woefully short they are on actually having what every allied race has, cannot be said of not having powerful and relevant roles when they’ve showed up in their short life - which cannot be said for night elves at all, and they’re a major race.

Blood elves have always been in the limelight, every expansion we’ve been with them at some point, them doing important work, being shown effectively, competently and powerfully, - quite the opposite for night elves - and you think we’d be fine with night elves involvement ending here after the sh*t show here. Night elves have only had that parity since after Legion.

And it’s not an attack on the blood elves - how can you possibly view what I said, pointed out to show you that parity for blood elves being involved in legion, the Night elf expansion is that night elves be involved in Midnight, the blood elf expansion.

that is not attacking the blood elves, it’s giving you a reason why we are expecting and desiring the night elves to be involved, and that this should be so, and is only fair.

It isn’t the only reason I gave, but maybe it is one you would understand as you love comparing what each side has gotten.

Bottom line is that races should all have some roles, and get story continuance for them. The focus on Midnight is the Sunwell and the void - this demands a primary Blood elf focus, and the night elven races and factions , the Nightborne and night elves are tied in a minor way to them, they would be there, I don’t expect them to have a major role, but I don’t expect them to have a minimal side role either.

Night elves would be working with Void elves, and Nightborne with blood elves. Both night elven races would be involved, not jus the horde one. And both would be helping their Thalassian race faction friends.

809

Boss, belfs used to be nelfs, yeah? Not only did they use to be nelfs but the magic type of nelfs, the highbourne, so that put them a lot closer to nightbourne than nelfs. Not to mention that both the belfs and the nightbourne went through the same withdrawal as the belfs. They were there to at least walk them through it. In fact the similarities between their situations made them the most natural allies in this game ever. Probably why their leaders are involved romantically. I’m not much of an elf fan, but this nb/belf story happens to be one of my favorites. I’m looking forward to THAT story in Midnight.

810

Not at all, blue dragonflight was studying and practicing magic on Azeroth long before the night elves. Not even only blue, as mages like Krasus existed among other flights too.
Also: what do You even mean by saying Eredar had an equivalent of mages, but not mages? They had people studying and practicing arcane magic long before Night elves (possibly even before the night elves existed as a race), and that’s exactly what mages are.

811

What do Night Elves bring that High Elves don’t? Other than, Druids which you don’t want to see…?

Nightborne are tied by hand of marriage between Quel’Thalas and Suramar. I’d say that’s a bit more than a “minor way” to be honest.

Never has their been a truly dedicated Blood Elf focus since 5.2 and that was 11 years ago.

Night Elves have received various patch content since Cataclysm and then it reduced slightly in MoP and WoD and it’s always been in full fire since Legion to present.

Out of the two, Blood Elves now need the focus and Night Elves can have some time off. They aren’t needed in a story which involved Quel’Thalas. Nightborne, Velfs and High Elves, along with Draenei and Forsaken/Darkfallen already bring enough to the table and have already been associated with the land of the Blood Elves.

Not the problem of the Blood Elves or Quel’Thalas.

No they haven’t.

Blood Elves have primarily been driving the narrative forward when it comes to Humans, High Elves and Night Elves. Mists of Pandaria is proof of that. Quel’Delar is proof of that. Cataclysm 4.1 is proof of that.

In the main, we’ve had the odd hostile Blood Elf in old night elf areas, like Lethtendris in Dire Maul and the Sunfury Blood Elves in Azshara under Magistrix Rimtori and then the Cata updates with the Silvermoon Magisters in Azshara; but aside from that - Blood Elves and Night Elves have been independent of each other.
I don’t count the Blood Elf Mages in Desolace (pre-Cata) as part of this, because Blizzard primarily focus that land of Tauren Shamanism and that is where it’s lore started. No doubt it was part of the Eldre’Thalas province before the Sundering, but that isn’t important.

Bring their Druids because that’s the only unique thing they bring to the table. Druids and Huntresses, just like it was in TBC Ghostlands.

Quel’dorei and Void Elves should be making up the bulk of the Alliance forces.

Sin’dorei Demon Hunters should start a quest where Felblood Elf features are unlocked. It’s Demon Hunter specific for either night elf demon hunters or blood elf demon hunters, but the Illidari lore in Midnight is Horde/Blood Elf driven (akin to the Illidari lore in Dragonflight where that was Alliance/Night Elf driven.)

I can guarantee that Shen’dralar lore won’t happen within Quel’Thalas. Shen’dralar lore, if it happens at all, will be in the reclamation of Eldre’Thalas.

812

And Cenarius and his children were studying and practicing nature magics on Azeroth long before the night elves, but it is the night elves that brought a level and structure to it for mortal-like races to the extent it could be called a class. T his is how blizzard invented these classes.

The Cenarians didn’t call themselves druids, nor did the Blues call themselves mages or arc mages. According to the lore, Night elves are the architects of both classes, as well as the demon hunters, but they were never the first to ever use nature magic or arcane magic or fel magic.

The way I understand it, is that in the Warcraft universe, these elves did something very unique to magic, that was greatly beneficial or structured enough when they honed them into such disciplines. I don’t know if those disciplines only hold relevance to mortal-like races, or the change was profound enough to influence the more eternal and super races like the demi-gods and dragons and so made their own mark on the field.

Either way, night elves are credited with the invention of the mage class, the druid class and the demon hunter class… they are not credited with the invention of arcane magic, nature magic or fel magic.

The lore shows this to us.

And if you want to know the difference between night elven studies of arcane and how it comes to the blue dragonflight, do the quest with Valtrois and Stellagosa in Legion. The tauren had been taught by Cenarius a few thousand years before Malfurion, but he is the one credited with the creation of the class, and we are shown this is superior… just lie the mages… Yet Cenarius wasn’t counted a druid then, but he is certainly superior to Malfuiron,

You are arguing with me over night elf credits, but I didn’t write the lore, and the ore gave them that… the lore didn’t give them every class either, as such as you want them to be useless at everything and good at nothing. You have other races credited with inventing/creating the Death Knight, the Paladin, the Shaman, the rogue, the priest, the warrior etc and/or their own unique versions of these, since classes like rogue, warrior and hunter are composite classes - in that the playable version is a combination of individual classes from other races. - a choice blizzard intentionally made

813

That’s right, but some Nelves becoming Belves, don’t stop Nelves from still being Nelves, and never did.

You still gots nelves great with arcane magic, who still are nelves, always were, and still good at it
You still got nelves great with fel magic, still nelves, always have been
You still got nelves great at using magic from Elune.

Just becomes some Nelves became Belves of the day, or others followed other paths or remained in the original path like the Nightborne, don’t make druids the only type of nelves and suddenly nelves be a druid race.

NElves ain’t a druid race, hell even Darnassian faction aint’ a druid faction. Cos Druid a class not a race. And Nelves are even more so priests, hunters, and have larger and longer racial history with being mages… even if you don’t see much of em in-game

And none of this stops belves from being belves, Farondis from being Farondis, Nightborne from being Nightborne or Moonguard from being Moonguard.

It’s just how it is.

814

Suramar or the broken isles wasn’t the problem of the Blood elves, yet they were there.

You’re not getting tht if blood elves can play a strong role in an expansion that has nothing to do with them (in a sense), then why can’t night elves play one in Midnight.

Blizzard invented a role for blood elves who had no business with Night elven folk - not Suramar, not nightborne, not Farondis - no business… yet they picked blood elves instead of orcs to shoulder the legion confrontation.

Why shouldn’t they pick night elves in return favour huh? This is exactly the sort of prejudice and bias we mean. Blood elves butt into affairs for everything because of favourtisim, looking strong, powerful and competent … . night elves past over where they should be, not picked where they could be, and where they show up they are downright rubbish or disappointing.

Night elves got everything all the original races - many of the alliance ones who’d been ignored mostly, got in cataclysm - it was a remake, you can’t call that involvement night elf favroutism or focus.

When it came to the actual expansion content - Hyjal and Vash’jir the night elf based zones had one where Thrall and not the night elves were the main focus, and the other where it was the horde and alliance chasing night elven treasures and the twisted nelves (the naga) the enemies to obliterate Oh please.

Legion was the night elf expansion sure, and that’s just the night elf equivalent of the blood elves’ TBC - Midnight is not the equivalent of Legion, Midnight would be the 2nd blood elf expansion - and they named it for all the elves - so why Midnight should primarily focus on Blood elves and ditch night elves doesn’t make sense to me.

Let’s compare quality too, compared to how the blood elves were shown in TBC, the night elven lot were rather rubbish in Legion - the Nightborne were evil and addicted, and the good ones were very pathetic - Thalyssra never once came off as powerful and was a super damsel in distress. Farondis himself did come off powerful but as an individual really. The Darnassian forces looking for Malfurion amongst the Val’sharahns were pathetic, their forces also in Suramar’s recapture were pathetic, Tyrande did nothing special or spectacular. in fact only the magical mastery of the Nightborne and the decimated moonguard who showed skill and initiative taking out far more nightborne than the Nightborne took them out were the only signs of night elves looking powerful.

We actually didn’t see the Wardens look powerful - afterall in Warden vault we help Drenalyn Whisperwind.

The night elven Illidari - while demon hunters looked cool, nothing stood out special about anyone - and here blood elves were involved. So any coolness of night elves felt here was shared by blood elves. One could argue that by blizzard bias, the only real reason we had the DHs look so cool was because blizz faves, blood elves were part of them. And which is why we had more lines for Kayn Sunfury rather than Altruis the Sufferer, the night elf counterpart.

After Legion has done the Night elves NO FAVOURS - having a focus centred around being slaughtered to near extinction is not the sort of focus I’m counting on as parity.

The decent thing would have been to have a strong night elf showing in all matters concerning them after… but did we ?

Naz’jatar- they were mostly ignored, just like the broken isles, instead showing more non-night elves in a very night elven content zone. At least Thalyssra and Shandris were there, and they were both USELESS - first arcanist indeed.

Shadowlands - Tyrande’s vengeance tirade - yes she looked cool in one encounter against Nathanos she kills, and Sylvanas she seems to actually best - but then her prowess is owed much to borrowed power - is the perception given - although I credit her with everything - part of the priest’s power is drawing from their faith source - whether the light from within or the deity they worship. Tyrande was a back side story. We see no Malfurion in druid heaven, and a constant reminder of the pathetic night elves, the ghosts who’ve been slaughtered in the few instances they are mentioned, and let me remind you that Tyrande’s track is a SMALL part of 1 of 6 expansion focus zones.

This is NOT night elf focus for a patch, nor is it night elf dominance, yet it is night elf content. How many other races got shows? Lots - Forsaken, high elves, blood elves, humans, orcs - I mean humans had the biggest involvement - Uther, Anduin, Bolvar, Jaina, Calia dominate… not night elves.

Night elves are remarked largely because of the dramatic scenes of Tyrande in 8.1 tiny quest chain, and the cinematic - it is TINY - and remarkable because she’s been around for 8 expansions, and was almost entirely absent save for a cameo in MoP and useless in the genocide wave - before finally getting a sliver in a quest line where she is supposed to get incredible powers on top of her already incredible powers only known about in the books because their bias won’t show it in game, and that double power allows Nathanos to hold is own against her - laughable

We are not impressed with Battle for Darkshore warfront or the sliver quest that comes. BFA was not about night elves, but at least night elves got some of the kind of exposure blood elves had been regularly receiving each expansion.

Then Dragonflight - the Emerald dream is the last patch - it is not a night elf expansion either but patch - this I would say is the 2.4 Sunwell Plateau patch for the night elves that should have been 7.4 - yes, though in a night elf expansion, 7.2 , taking place in a night elf zone had surprisingly little night elf lore - the class order halls were written into the plotline and Tyrande REMOVED from 7.2 - yes the Night warrior ritual was supposed to be a zone Tyrande and the order of Elune focus.

Ion, not a story developer, decided to pull this, so the class order halls got more story - the class order halls, who’d had their own storylines concurrent throughout the expansion, and Tyrande was squashed into 7.1 where Vereesa had been programmed to lead - or did you not notice Vereesa’s prominence in the Nighthold’s cinematic and Tyrande’s absence, where in the released 7.1, it is Tyrande that is harrying alliance forces instead of Vereesa.

Like we wouldn’t notice.

Pwah, you could say the part of 8.1 and 10.2 is basically the ngiht elf stuff cut out of legion, instead coming back over time, and altogether it is the equivalent of 2.x, not the equivalent of all the blood elf activity we got in WotLk, Cataclysm, MoP, WoD, Legion, BFA, Shadowlands and Dragonflight. Of which the blood elves look a hell of a lot better than the night elves.

Make no mistake, night elves still lag behind blood elves in terms of both the quantity and quality of thier involvement throughout wow. If Midnight was to totally focus on the blood elves and exclude the Night elves, it is massively unfair to the night elves.

Night elves should be in Midnight supporting void elves and Nightborne supporting blood elves - this is how you involve them. Neither have anything to do with Quel’thalas, but then or did the high elves and blood elves have anything to do with the broken isles and Suramar - however thier connection as elves is what buys them into the involvement.

It’s that simple. The high elves are the descendants of the night elven people. It is fitting they come to each others’ aid even though they don’t have relevant connections there.

To then sit up and say night elves should not be involved because of patch 10.2 or because you’re tired of seeing them after following the Dragonscale expedition ld by blood elves all through dragonflight and enjoying consistent blood elf involvement since they joined in TBc - is the hypocrisy from blood elf fans I will always call out and redress in detail.

815

Except Suramar married into being involved with Quel’Thalas.

don’t see how.

It’s only night elf fans who want this to be “World of Night Elf-Craft.”
The best Night Elf involvement is through Druids and Sentinels, as per the original Ghostlands and maybe Darkfallen Night Elves, since Darkfallen Sin’dorei held a small presence in Bel’ameth.

Because a rebel against Illidan doesn’t hold water as the canon second in command. It’s why Kayn Sunfury was used throughout the questing experience for none-Demon Hunters. It wasn’t a case where Altrius would show up for Alliance players and Kayn, for Horde players. The canon choice was always Kayn.
Altrius was just there as a TBC Easter Egg.

Because Broken Isles isn’t the home of the Alliance Night Elves.
Quel’Thalas is the home for Thalassians and, no doubt, Shalassians as well, since Shal’dorei are seen within Quel’Thalas.

Night Elves just don’t get involved with Thalassian Elf affairs, aside from spying missions.

Because Night Elves have been overused and it’s time for Velfs to have their time and for the Quel’dorei to return to the story in a grand way.

Sin’dorei and Shal’dorei are already grand with their kingdoms united by marriage.

Source, otherwise an outlandish “ma feels” comment. I’m not here to pander to your feelings.
I couldn’t care less about people’s feelings - if people start crying over the things I say, then they should either get off the internet or grow thicker skin.

Likewise to night elf fans who just demand this game be about them and to hell with the rest of the races.

This is not World of Night Elf craft.

You’ve had your expansions, whether you like them or not is your opinion, but now is the time for night elves and humans to be pushed out of the story.
Make way for other races like the Quel’dorei of the Silver Covenant and establish Crystalsong and Shandaral as their new home.

816

Actually it kind of did. There was a major cultural shift and to be honest there had to be. The nelfs did the smart thing since all their problems could be traced to a society that was built on seeking to gather more power, to control everything around them. Them changing to a society that allows itself to live in harmony with the elements around them instead of controlling them makes total sense.

It’s just how it is.

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817

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but the cities shown in OP’s post seem to be more affiliated with the Highborne, no? And the remnants of that society are the Blood Elves, Nightborne, and Naga, for whom to me it makes more sense to have the expansive and impressive sprawling cities. The playable Night Elves seem more disconnected from that, being the ones/descendants of the ones that banished the Highborne, preferring nature and yes, living in wooden homes in their ancient, secluded forests. That being said, Bel’ameth could have looked a lot better and the NE players deserve their own city.

Feel free to correct me as my WoW knowledge is pretty outdated at this point, lol.

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818

Lifestyle shift moreso than cultural shift. habitats shift, and only for some of the night elves.

Changes can occur with a people due to circumstances… none of this has stopped night elves from being night elves.

Arcane essence, magic prolific race. And the lore proves and shows it.

it shows you night elves rising tot he highest heights of both arcane magic and civilization
And when civilization fell, it showed you night elves who remained using arcane magic continue at the level of excellence and mastery they had wielded it.
it also showed you night elves of the faction that took a break from it also being quite adept at picking it up again, and keen to do so.

I t didn’t transform their society back into that of the advanced age, the golden era, however, it di show you that this continues to be a part of the night elves, and one they are great at.

As such, neglecting to give proper exposure to night elf priest’s, mages, demon hunters is a poor reflection of the race
also making the night elves all about the forest and druid goals makes the night elves druidic as a race rather than the druid a part of the race - that is a difference we notice.

Night elves are not designed to be a pure druidic race - and consigning them wholly to this is a BAD and poor idea , they are designed for part of them to be druidic, part of them arcane - they are a mixture, their definition is not in the forest or arcane magic primary but in the stars and the night, this is where they are defined. Living in the forests or great cities are not their definition, those are just habitats they will shift between at various parts of their story… just like humans may have a period where their cities are destroyed, and they feel they have to stay that way for a while. Once the danger is passed they can rebuild

You have to account the night elf story… the night elf is not a forest fae creature, it is an elf, an actual peoples, one from a great civilization now trying to rebuild itself after a 10,000 year period of war and isolation. They love forests, but they also love temples and love their cities… different types of night elves appeal to different habitats.

This is what we liked about them, painting all the priests as forest swearing loving and abiding creatures who only care about that rubbishes the foundation lore, priests care about Elune, her temples and her lands. Some of those lands include forest but aren’t particular to that. to them now make it as if the arcane goddess is now all about nature and life, is ANNOYING - this was Malfurion and the druids domain - not the night elf race.

the night elf race has Elune, it’s civilization great and broken - that’s what they are about, the druids are their own group, we consider it a night elf thing because the vast majority of them are night elves, but that is not the nation.

819

You seem to confuse magic stuff with being nelfs. What, humans stopped being humans when they, I don’t know, stopped using oil and changed to electricity? This wasn’t a radical change even aside the fact that it was based on a very healthy reason, they also didn’t fully change. Malfurion was learning druid magic and Tyrande was a priestess of Elune. So they only changed the part of their culture that was, if not fully, but at least in part to blame for them, you know, breaking up the world.

You seem to take issue with that because you act as if that was all their culture was based on and it wasn’t. They changed their path and good thing too since they seem to be the only elves in this game that aren’t magic addicts.

So why don’t you go play a nightbourne instead. They are the nelfs that not only never abandoned their practices with magic but rather allowed their society to depend on it to the point where the absence of it literally turned them into mana zombies.

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820

Highbonre are night elves, ALL highborne. These are night elven cities built by them and Ancients (the tree people) in the pre-sundering era.

They are not a remnant of the “Highborne society” - they are Highborne descendants, but their culture, their civilization and their society - which are 3 different things, is there own, high elven, not night elven, highborne or kaldorei. They wanted something better, more noble, cleaner, and hoped would be superior to the kaldorei civilization in all its glory. What they developed while having lots of similarities, as all civilizations do, and being elven as they are elves, is also it’s own thing, similar but different.

Some of the fnas at the advent of the night elves use to think that that was what the high elves were, but blizzard made it quite clear they were their own thing, (not entirely new ofc, but their own thin. They were long vigil elves themselves, whose main differnece wtith the other long vigil night elves was that htey believed they could and should use arcane magic and start rebuilding. They din’t think to restore the corruption of the past, but when they got exiled, and became day swellers they did many thign anew and differnetly, while retainign their elven core, if no longer night i.e. nocturnal. or ancient highborne or night elven based. The Highborne are entirley night elven based.

Nightborne society is a remnant of that society, as are the Shen’dralar life in Dire Maul.

But cities and societies are not the same thing.

Naga are not a remnant of this society either. the naga are mostly twisted night elves, just like the Satyr - who I’m surprised you exclude, which shows you a separation in your thought process between the two, why would you consider Xavius as night elven but not Azshara for example. Nightborne as part of that legacy, but not the Shen’dralar Highborne?

Anyway, the Naga, are not a remnant of that society, the naga once turned by and to N’zoth and the old gods, have gone about building a twisted version of the former kaldorei society they once led.

Night elves as a race and The Night Elf faction have to be distinguished.

I feel more you are referring to the main night elf faction, called the Night Elves (capitals), you have to note the night elf race is quite divers… the main night elf faction is not as you say, but they were living in the forest - many of them because of the situation they found themselves rather than some innate characteristic of them.

However the night elves you play are quite diverse, you can play as the main Night elf faction night elf, you can play as an Illidari night elf - different faction, an Ebon Knight night elf, a dark ranger night elf (different group), a Highborne Night elf - (of any night elf Highborne faction you chose, i.e. Shen’dralar Highborne, Darnassian Highborne, Moonguard etc.

Amirdrassil shows the RACE not just one faction coming together as members from all the various night elven factions except for the Nightborne, come there.

Anyway, I would say ALL nightelves love nature and Elune, they are by nature an arcane loving/disposed people, with a love of nature and devotion to Elune, Azshara, towards the end of her reign, was not the biggest on Elune devotion or nature love, and huge on arrogance, and hubris, recklessness, none of which was characteristic of the night elves and herself in the earlier days.

the society , already built by that time, went out of control, and very un-night elf in characteristics - and it was appropriate to lead them to become naga and Satyr… those who remained NElves continued the original legacy of the elves, although it was

821

The zone of handsome tall man all so delicious . Good

822

No you’re correct. It’s just that OP wish for the current night elves to also heavily showcase those themes because they used to have them 10k years ago. No matter that they changed their culture or that those that kept practicing diverged into different groups.
You can not get through to him.

Then there’s no problem? The highborne and their descendants are shown to practice the arcane? The highborne night elf groups are showing these big arcane magic feats and cities while the part of kaldorei society that decided to not do it are focusing on their religion of Elune and Druidism.
You have all aspects of night elf culture as a race showing right here with the different night elf groups. It seems to me you’re mixing up race and factions.

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823

Oh, and Night elves haven’t reached their peak potential. If you follow the arcane mage weapon, the entity tells you that eventual night elves would have reached a level similar tot he titans. That is their potential.

Put aside the advanced civilization and magical wonders, the mere fact they had a global unified empire of one purpose is simply phenomenal in and of itself, you could go millnenia without even coming close, as the last 10,000 years of Azeroth’s history has shown, and off course our own history, so what they were written to achieve is quite something of itself, at that scale.

It is easy to be unified when you’re a small village, it’s something else to be so onto the building and maintaining of a global civilization

824

I guess if you want a gimmick and not an actual race, like many of the cheaper fantasy series do.

When blizzard designed the night elves they designed a race, they didn’t have a “gimmick”, thier first impression were female priest/warriors - not druids, who like demon hunters were a smaller part of thier thing.

No, making night elves a gimmick is breaking them, - and i don’t think the point of races is to have gimmicks spread over, it isn’t good. Real races don’t live in a bubbleonly capable of doing one thing… not if you want to make that race a big thing.

Anyway what you call a gimmick is a chief or main characteristic, adn for night elves that actually isn’t nature, it is the night - their make up and story from the get go is far too varied to pin it down on a class theme.

825

Let’s hope it is better than welfare state Stormwind, but it is far from what night elves were originally too.

Most of the players here think of night elves as rural or savage elves - they won’t even believe you if you tell them about the kaldorei civilization or that Suramar or Darnassus is a night elven city, because they can’t fathom the race outside the druid class, which they then in turn perceive as rural and savage rather than deeply spiritual about nature - massive difference.

Anyway, it is not a case of night elves are the uncivilised elves and blood elves the civilised ones - which is what most hordies love to think. [just look at who are quite fine about things as is - ofc the horde - who already have civilised and arcane wielding city night elves displayed just fine through the Nightborne - and so feel it un-necessary for the main group on the alliance side to have it. - but it’s just about that, which they aren’t getting - a true fan wants to see in game everything he has read and has been released about his favourite group in game - so even if horde night elves have it, if the stories wrote about the alliance group, the original group as great priest, mages, demon hunters, with cities and forests alike, being badass, we wanna see it for those people too - like it was wirtten about them in the novels , books and earlier games.]

No. Night elves are highly civilised and I regret this not coming across well enough. Night elves have a more primal feel to them, wilder more alien but not uncivilised. You saw this with the Nightborne in Suramar.

The main jist of night elves at this stage of the main group’s story feels wilder and more rural not because they are the uncivilised or savage rural elves, but because their story at the current stage is framed within a post apocalyptic survivors of an advanced civilisation living in a dystopian world and forced back to dealing with middle aged people. This part is true for all night elves and that’s how you just think of them racially.

While the main host of the night elves is in this rural state framed by circumstances remember this is circumstantial and not the heart or essence of the night elves.

Also remember there are two other main types of night elves we actually play as players (not just the above mentioned main group) who are very different from this. The Illidari ones who were finally given their own bases, world and set in Legion and the arcane wielding Highborne types - which encompass Nightborne, Shen’dralar, Moonguard and Farondis all with. The Highborne subset and presented in a night elf city like Suramar, Eldre’thalas (in ruins currently), and would be the dominant inhabitants of a rebuilt Darnassus and Zin’Azshari.

They are also playable as Nightborne on the horde or as Mage night elves in the alliance.

I just hate how they show them in game and they don’t match what I read. Tyrande before the shadowlands cinematic is a chief example of this. Malfurion is a big oaf in game, he’s done FART all, Illidan was a big raid boss in TBC, but played little to no part in the expansion, however he did come off quite cool in Legion from 7.2 and 7.3

This is how I’d like to see it … if night elves are gathering to do something for the entire race… I don’t just want to see sentinels or sentinels and druids, I want to see star calling priests, not bow and arrow priests, Highborne mages , Nightborne , Moonguard, I want to see Demon hunters, Ravencrest Death knights, Dark rangers druids of the flame, Wardens - involved. Maybe even throw in some naga and satyr to defeat and show how much better magic in balance, harmony and unity is much more powerful than dark twisting.

Do you remember how we quested with Thaon Mooncaler and Prince Farondis in Legion? And Later Illidan? Why was NO ONE in 10.2 even remotely close to how cool these 3 were - a druid, mage and demon hunter.

Look at how they used them. Sure the hero does a lot, but look how powerful Prince Farondis seemed with his meteor bombardment, and then Thaon as he leaped about ripping the Satyrs up showing no nonsense, hot head guy. then Illidan off course, as he would direct us on the field on the broken shore, and in the Cathedrals.

We did most of the work, but they still felt powerful… remember Lothrius the Moonguard leader/ He was badass, and had his moment where he shone.

Where was any of that in Amirdrassil. Lame. While you see them fighting in Amirdrassil, it’s just background fighting, you don’t see or even care who wins or loses amongst them, it’s all irrelevant.

If you guys can’t see the point I am trying to make. I promise you, you will see it when it hits the race you care about.

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It is, but that’s not the issue here:

Why do I Even Care ?
Anyway, I am not sure why I care so much about trying to make players think correctly about night elves… they are what they are, and if players either don’t get it or refuse to get it, that’s there problem - they’d be the ones shocked when they see night elven places like Suramar, or night elven elite mage forces and wonder workers - because they never knew, or rather, they only judged night elves based on what they saw, rather than what the information about them was.

It is the developers, the new ones, who don’t know Warcraft intimately, who don’t know or care about night elves, who have picked this up as a job, or were gamers hired for other talents whose impressions of night elves are like this and have missed what they actually are, it is them I’m a little concerned about - changing night elves into actual rural and uncivilised elves, or into full on druid elf race, where that’s the entire race rather than just an aspect or part of the race.

They risk making night elves boring and uninteresting, changing them from that far more mysterious and higher fantasy group to a bog standard ordinary green wood elf, forest elf - changing the night and the stars to merely be figurative and changing the night elf past, divorcing it from the race.

I hate that, I hate that you tell me that a thing is this way, and do something I like, get me to buy your books and your games, to see more of it, then a few years down the line, after many times playing and reading the stuff I like, you change it and rephrase it … you cut it down, because you can’t be bothered to do something serious about or write it well, or you have other favourites so you are okay about just pushing it into one thing and doing a “quick job”.

They didn’t have to make night elves great at the arcane, great with divine powers or fel, they didn’t have to have them have an incredible civilization, able to racially call down the stars because of their arcane connection to Azeroth through the wells and the Moon goddess - they didn’t

I just happened to love that vibe, the night, the colours, the stars, and I like high fantasy - and it was very likeable because I also like nature and the trees, and I loved that the night elves had this also but it was SEPARATE. They weren’t trying to fuse forests with buildings. you had the cities and you had the forests, they are separate things but both are part of this night elven people, and you get to experience what a night civilization is like and what a forest people are like - especially from a night forest perspective. It feels more realisitic, some humans live in the forest with nature magics, some live in the city and do technology and industry - you have both. And apparently elves did both and did both very very well. I don’t see why we can’t continue to have city elves and arcane magic night elves - continuing to do what they do and do it well- they’re already in the game, why don’t we see them? while the forest elf group of night elf druids continue to do their excellent thing in their habitat. demon hunter night elves continue to chase their demons, and the priest… well the priests have bases and temples in both the city and the forest because they minister to the people - even if the forest lot have their own religion or the city lot make knowledge their first love rather than thier deity

And so I’m quite disappointed how little developed in game the night elf civilization side is, the Elune part, the star culture, even the night forest - and while we have had all of these things in night elves, the vast majority of the time is taking up showing us druid stuff.

Why can’t night elf portrayal be as balanced as it was in Legion expansion? In Legion the druids were only a 3rd of the pie, the arcane and civilization part of the night elves were a 3rd in Azsuna and Suramar, the demon hunters played another big role in affairs and then we had the wardens and priests - who sadly did have a lot cut.

But we saw other things to night elves, including magic users both Nightborne and Highborne that matched the lore descriptions.

Last time I checked, Suramar is still around, as is Eldre’thalas.

Also night elves were pretty badass in WC3, and we had badass night elf demon hunters, (Korvas and Illidan), Mages (Farondis, Lothirus, Elisande and Aluriel), Druids (Thaon, Rensar) in Legion - but only Legion, then Tyrande in her cinematic.

Last I recall, night elves yes were highly written about both in the war of the ancient books, and the lore stories of it, but also had a competent showing in Wc3, and briefly in the legion expansion - and this is not what he is saying, I have addressed his post, High elves and blood elves are not the continuation of the Highborne, the Highborne are still around and are continuing the Highborne just fine on the alliance, while the Nightborne continue that pre-sundering kaldorei culture on the horde.

They are already in the game, they are just not visible on the alliance. this is about the visibility of the best parts of the Night elves.

I’m not here to argue about whether night elf mages are real or not, the Shen’dralar, the Moonguard, Farondis and Nightborne are all in game, and the brief excursion we saw of all but the Shen’dralar are quite powerful

Having come out of isolation and able to build cities, whey are all the night elven cities in ruins, but the horde night elves, the Nightborne have one?

Saying that night elves had cities 10,000 years ago, is not an excuse. night elves are not just druids, druids are not all there are to night elves, and never were, The failure to show other night elves in particular Moon Priestesses, Highborne, Moonguard and Demon Hunters regularly doing stuff and doing it well to the levels the lore records them as doing them is what is very frustrating.

And in addition to that, night elves capable and having built cities like Suramar, Zin’Azshari, Eldre’thalas, Darnassus, and Nar’thalas, now only producing a settlement and this is their “grand” conclusion is what is freaking pathetic and disappointing of them.

827

I’m not mixing up anything. It’s not an either or, It’s not The Nightborne are the Highborne city night elves, there for the ones on the alliance are not. that’s a misconception only team red has because already having night elven civilization and magic, you don’t see the point of it existing on the other side. This is not what those of the fans on the other side are saying.

I know some men find it had to see things from others’ perspective, the night elves on the alliance are highborn types, priest types, druid types, demon hunter types, arcane types, fel types, nature types, hunter types etc… they are the complete package.

The night elves on the horde , currently are mostly arcane type. Just like the Lightforged Draenei are mostly priest Holy Light types, while the Draenei are priest of both light and shadow (auchindouin death) types, mage types, engineer crystal tech types, Rangari hunter types etc. That the other group has a largely singular focus does not now mean it’s okay for the main group not to have it. We don’t expect zero Draenei light development just because we have Lightforged draenei and so all the light visualisation should now sit on the Lightforged. the Lightforged are a separate faction/sub race of Draenei, and as such have many things in common, their point is not to separate the slight from the draenei, their point is to be a focused group with it’s own story having unique appearances and characteristics relevant to their story.

Same with the night elves. the alliance group has all the composite factors of the night elves, mage, druid, priest, demon hunter hunter etc, forest and city a like - it’s a multi zone encompassing main race. the Nightborne only mostly focus on arcane temporal magic and loving the blood elves now. Just because they have the arcane magic and live in a city, doens’t mean that the main night elf race with many more groups available on it, can’t or shouldn’t have one, (essentially saying they should neither have arcane magic nor a city - because Nightborne have one. It’s ludicruous, but then people complained about night elf mages, because blood elves had one, and some could have even gone to say humans shouldn’t be mages any more because blood elves were.

Wanting to see the night elves in game be as badass in the game consistently as they are in the stories and show much more of hte stuff form the lore and books and previous games, including their Highborne folk and priest folk in cities and temples rather than just settlements, seeing that they’ve had this before both in story and in-game is what the issues is here.

People who have read and followed the night elves in the novels and the earlier game want to see that calibre of night elf again, they want a faithful and powerful presentation. This is what the fans bought into when they became fans - and paid money for games, novels and further material, they wanted the stuff they like, not for it to be watered down 10 years or 20 years later into a fraction of what it once was

And I’m sorry, a settlement in Bel’ameth, not even a village, sitting down doing nothing, and living with no care in these times is not what they want of their night elves - you think they’re going to be happy with that after all the crap they’ve been run through in the main game? They want their night elves powerful, pressing their advantage utilising their powerful magic s of the Well of Eternity, Moonwells, Elune, the Emerald Dream and Amirdrassil, restoring some of their cities so they have something in game as theirs from their own lore, not just ruins. and settlements.

Having lost so much, they expect the night elves to regain and get better versions. lost immortality? well how can Amirdrassil/Azeroth restore that and an even better version? Had to go 10k years without using the well of eternity and moonwells to actually defend yourselves… well let’s see how those same Shen’dralar and Highborne still with the night elves and those ancients used this magic to build wonders and over come their enemies trying to destroy their land.

Don’t you see what this is about? Night elf presentation in game. it’s not just about Highborne this or city this, but that is part of it, because they aren’t showing all the cool things written about the night elves in game properly for the night elves, and players want to see that.

They want more of the cool action we had glimpses of in parts of legion, the cool night elf city and powerful night elven races, rather than the lame fighting they got in Amirdrassil, and a design in a second bunch of simple houses - that’s what they wanna see - which is as if to say, here, this is what night elves have now become from what they once were. The End - there isn’t going to be applause over this from those who care.