I get it that some people want to gear their alts and the system kinda “allows it”. I have a ton of alts myself and this isn’t even my main (well obviously), but at least I took some time to gear it up a bit by, you know, playing the game.
However, these guys, like… do they have any conscience? I may be from a different generation, but srsly what the f?
I’m talking about all those “raid leaders” that in reality never led a single raid, however, they advertise themselves as one on the group finder, esp on normal difficulty there are tons of them. For example, today I saw a DK “raid leader” with an advert like this: “8/8 hc lead, oneshot group”. I checked him out and the ilvl was 339 lol. He had, omg, greens. And I did join the grp (on other char), just out of pure curiosity. He, of course, been gathering only classes who won’t roll on the tier pieces that DKs can roll.
Needless to say that when the raid started he was always below tanks on dps.
Waste of space in the raid group. Literally getting boosted. Zero “raid leading” cause ofc every1 knows what to do and he never said a word like this grp here this there. I didn’t care much tbh, but I decided to never join such grp again. Feels dirty, like I need a shower now. Everyone seemed to be okay with it. Like it’s normal.
I think there has to be some barrier. Heck, the system doesn’t allow such low ilvls into LFR, it should NOT allow them to create grps for raid in LFG then. Make it so that only after certain ilvl you can create a new raid group for specific raid. Join is okay, let them try, maybe some1 feels like doing such charity runs.
What do you guys think?
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I think if you don’t like it you shouldn’t sign up.
I’ve seen a few people in low gear that were excellent leaders. They communicated clearly and concisely and got the group through the raid in good time with no drama.
It’s a trade off, my higher output for their good knowledge and leadership.
lol really?
I simply don’t get why people don’t just not sign up to groups they disagree with. I mean God forbid you make a group and lead it - but naw - so much easier to criticize the crap outta people that give it a go. (And yes, I know you claim he was bad and didn’t lead etc etc)
I’ve healed a couple of 11’s and 12’s with a 334 tank. I guess with your logic I should tell him to bugger of to normal dungeons too?
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You’re missing the point completely.
Also don’t compare it to tanking pls, it’s in another dimesion.
And sry, do I know you? What do you know about me? How many raids I led in the past? What did I do? Keep your assumptions to yourself. I led MC raids and PvP premades in vanilla be4 cross-realm bs struck. Probably be4 some “raid leaders” here learned how to tie shoes.
About your particular example: probably you’re a good healer, probably you had to really tryhard to keep that tank alive while you could have a smooth ride if you just had some1 with better gear. He could gear up in HCs or even by just killing a few rares in the world be4 making others lives harder by joining their runs, eh? The nerve of such people!
Don’t try to paint the DK from my case white, mmkay? He never invited any1 from a class who could roll on his tier pieces, such a kind soul. The sole purpose of him listing a grp was “boost me”.
I call things what they are. He wanted a free ride and to get gear-boosted. That’s all there is to it. And there are lots like him. Right now on the LFG tool, go see.
Bosses these days scale for the number of ppl in raid, everyone has to put in more effort than they should, providing a free service for these freeloaders. You’re fine with it? Pff. And you know, arguments like “you don’t like it make your own” can go far. You don’t like your iPhone? Make your own. I’m so fed up with this kind of “logic”.
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And whats the problem here?
I mean it’s their group. Just don’t apply if you disagree with it. Or see it as a carry run.
What do you want done about it?
1 Like
I agree with OP. It’s a nasty practice. I wouldn’t join such a group. In the end, such people have to face themselves because karma is a b****.
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Agree with Dejarous and similiar opinions.
Regardless on how good or bad the leader was or his gear status. Ultimately its his group and his rules. Don’t like it? Hit the road then.
A 418 guy can create a normal/heroic charity run and invite every 355 scrub he can find, same as a person can create a “boost me” run. There is no Blizzard rule which states I need to invite a set amount of people, ilevel, experience or I also need to have meet some kind of requirements. If you don’t like my philosophy or group leading… well…nobody made you join my group at gunpoint… 
You pretty much just described how businesses work IRL.
Its unethical but raid leading is hardest role in game - harder than tank.
3 Likes
I think you take this problem too far for nothing, at this point. Let’s be real, this problem wont exist anymore in 3-4 weeks when all our character will have access to easy 4-tier pieces. Sure, it’s a problem. I think there could be solutions to that, like:
- Unlocking Catalyst as soon as the top 3 guild cleared the raid in Mythic (or after 3 weeks, to keep the nature of the competition).
- Having a universal token that everyone will roll on instead of 3x4 classes tokens.
But not allowing people to start a group on LFG based on Ilevel is just excessive, and could cause problems in the first weeks of a raid, as few people could have the required ilevel.
Don’t blame the players. It’s the toxic environment created by the devs which is reasonable for this fiesta. The game at first glance looked really promising but loot scarcity, gated tier sets and capped valor ruined it.
And devs are simping for wfr
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Of course they are, they actually need visibility from old and new players and events like that are a big window to gain interest. Furthermore, events like that do inspire the competitive based players, giving them motivation to do the same and create/join/motivate their own guild, making them ultimately play more of the game.
As for the toxic environment, there will always be toxicity, even if you make a fair (and boring) currency based loot system, as toxicity will shift from trying to get the most out of loot system to finding the most efficient way to get them as fast possible, which tend to Elitism. The true problem comes from the people wanting their gear ASAP, not for anything else. So yes, it’s more of a community/player problem than a game design one. It can be tuned down, but you can’t alter the greedy human nature.
Sure but we are also living in a century with alternatives in place. People won’t wait for lazy devs they will just hop onto another game. For it will be hogwarts :D.
My guild is dead atm. Most people had enough of ping ponging their key from 16-15-16 all the time
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When I used to lead pugs I would take anyone that was willing to listen on discord. Miss those times.
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I didn’t say it too clear, but I was talking about fake raid leading. When you have to link 8/8, it assumes you kinda know what to do on all bosses. Oh and don’t worry - “failers will be kicked”.
What’s so hard about pressing a few buttons in the LFG tool to make a new grp in the raids section? Cause that is the maximum leading effort that this guy made. When the grp filled up, he did say “lets go” tho… does it count lol
Also, as I said, I joined to see what will happen.
Even if in some imaginary situation there can be a super-skilled leader with 339 ilvl in LFG. Hypocrites saying that this is fine and dandy would probably never invite such low ilvl person in their own group “just to lead”.
I’ve been ‘raid leading’ pugs to 7/8 on normal. It is so easy you don’t even need voice chat, just do all the talking in text chat, isn’t difficult at all. You just need to say '‘ok lets go’ when everyone is stood around like lemons, that is as hard as it gets.
Yep, that’s exactly what I’m talking about (no offence). So in the end it’s about the number of “bodies” in the grp and the fact that others just carry the leecher.
Here’s a littile story. In the old times when raiding was top tier, I was in a guild once with a raid leader who was a really brilliant guy, but also a psycho, he went nuts on ppl failing the mechanics and was super-toxic, but we loved him still. With him, for example, we made such achivs like “Tribute to dedicated instanity”, look it up if you want, quite a rare thing and title from the trial of crusader raid or what was it called… sry, was long ago. He never did too good on dps, but we all knew that it’s because he’s watching everyone every second. That is the kind of raid leader that can make you do things despite the gear lvls (unless a boss is a gearcheck), they know your class better than you and it goes for every class, but such leaders are very rare and are probably already well-known. So whoever thinks that it’s okay to compare the real raid-leaders to LFG scrubs of today - please don’t.
Low gear, no “provable” experience = no invite
Ok. Guy takes innitative in his own hands and creates his own group.
Omgez you can’t be leader unless you are 415 ilevel and CE!!
2 Likes
Don’t expect positive feedback here. Sorry, but while it is kinda annoying that people make groups to boost them you’re in control whether you join it or not.
For me the bigger annoyance are threads like these happening all the time since forever. It’s ALWAYS the same pattern: someone gets triggered over someone making own group for whatever → make thread about that → people telling there that it’s their group with their rules → OP triggers more → “make your own group” → excuses → thread dies after 3-4 pages of offtop
And that’s probably the best thing to do in between patches. I do personally wait for Jedi Survivor in march and Baldur’s Gate 3 in August. ^^
Still, it’s not really a matter of lazyness.
Caped Valor is there to incentivise players to diversify their activities, reducing the importance of of M+ in the gearing process to give back more to the raid. In my opinion, this should be lift up with the january 25 patch, but i suppose they keep that for the 10.0.7.
Gated Tier set (i assume it’s the fact it only drops in raids) wont be a problem anymore in one week from now, but i do think too it should have been sooner. Still, in a world where most people doesn’t have a guild to do the raid regularly because of the massive drop of Shadowlands, it’s logic to incentivise players to find one in order to get in the raid to loot tier sets. Else it’s so much easier to just do MM+ and never bother with the socializing side of an MMO.
As for Loot Scarcity, this is a weird take, coming from someone who use a Classic Avatar, as it’s pretty much the same as any pre-Legion expansion, with the MM+ loot accessibility. I see this argument everywhere on the forum since the start of Shadowlands, but in the end, the only thing that were different in Legion/BFA and now/SL was the fact that the low level content could proc as Titanforged, making the gearing process easier if you had a little bit of luck, and AP that was a reward in itself when you did not received an item. The more i see people complaining about loot scarcity, the more i start to believe they miss those days.
This is the same as arguing on the market about people selling something too expensive. It’s supply vs demand.
You can do your part by not joining these groups (or even better, hosting raids yourself) but asking for PREMADE content to have less freedom is asinine.