When do you think they manage better talents (rework-ish) for all specs (Hunter ofc)? I mean not dps, as you can manage good dps for any new spec with 1 ability.
Hunter feels like it needs some of that, I mean BM is good, but could be more complete.
MM could be less dependent on two abilities, and it’s aoe version, as Aim shot is the answer to everything. As to be quoted “survival hunter (old) is very similar to MM”, so we made MM bit less MM, because it is similar to a two-button spec which is better, next we get to have Aim shot only, with inbuild rapid shot.
As for survival, I really miss the old one, but still, the melee just needs some minor adjustments so other abilities matter more, and also they should think of it as a melee class if they made it into one. Add abilities that help melee gameplay more, and not under some huge cooldowns. Also some better utility for being a melee trade (having ranged abilities just aren’t enough as they don’t hit high enough + paladins have a lot of ranged abilities anyway)
Blizz never liked ranged weapon wielder classes or specs, but I hope at least they get Hunter right, as it is now, I want to play it, but I feel slight disgust, so I don’t.
Tldr; So the question remains, speculate when will they do a hunter rework?
If there is a re-work, I would definitely advocate at least loosening the restriction between AoE and ST for all specs a lot more. You’ve hit the nail on the head concerning MM and I honestly wish I could do so much better with it rather than defaulting to BM which, in my experience, has produced more numbers even in the ideal scenario where MM should be shining.
Probably just an L2P thing on my end, but yeah, it would be nice to see greater flexibility. I honestly don’t mind about how SV is a melee and it seems to have quite the nice divergence and split between ST and AoE without losing much of either if one side is prioritized.
I wish the other specs were more like that.
As for a ‘when’? Next expansion, maybe. It is popular to assume any big changes happen by then. Or if something really dire comes up and warrants its need to change. Some are divided as to what that change is and when it should be.
HOWEVER, big reworks have happened already. There’s a chance Hunter is included in that respect, but my only doubts is that it was not explicitly stated to be so. Still, I find the class fun so I stick with it as the main character I deal damage with.
For MM honestly the biggest mistake they made was buffing our trueshot proc talent. Until then, we had some variety (light/heavy ammo) based on how you were pulling, and not a huge difference between ST spec, and ST with our AoE spec.
But now that talent is absolutely mandatory and overpowered, it makes everything else absolutely useless in comparison. We then have to pigeonhole it into our AoE spec which feels horrible, and it makes everything just aimed shot spam.
With the best way to play MM now not even running precise shot talent, nor steady focus focus gain, surely blizzard will see how this just breaks the spec somewhat. 0 focus from steady shot feels awful (Although not having precise shots I don’t mind personally).
I left mm because of the random proc hunting, what Jerby mentioned.
I don’t think the MM aoe is the best, but if they stick to this Trick Shot mechanic, why can’t it be applied to 2-3 targets like the BM beast cleave? And then the cleave on 2-3 targets would also be solved. On the other hand, it’s a bit boring how much the whole aoe revolves around the salvo and the explosives, i mean yes its fun when you can open with a BIG BUMM, but you can do it once a min, and our other aoe is capped.
Anyway, MM is not bad, but it is a step back compared to S1.
About surviva, idk i like this ‘‘hybrid’’ half malee half randged stuff, but the thing i hate is the 1 button complex ST rotation. Mongoose Bite is boring for me.
BM is a bit boring too, on single you have to take care about frenzy and spaming Kill Command, on aoe all the same +have to use one multi/6 sec. I would nerf the beast cleaves damage, and I would give BM some new interesting aoe spell, or just make BARRAGE worth to use.
The basic hunter problem, that he can’t give anything to the team, has already been solved once, back in MOP it was great your pets could do a lot. Forexample: cbress, %spell damage like DH now, armpen (ofc its not relevant now).
But I only say this as an example, because then the hunter could give the team almost everything it needed with the pets.
Let’s say the only problem with this would be that MM doesn’t use pet, but that could also be solved with an instant dismiss pet spell.
Overall, this is my opinion, it would not be important to give us something new, everything that would solve the current problems was already in the game once.
For BM, I think something fun would be keeping the core rotation simple (as it is) but adding different (optimally player controlled) damage abilities to pets. So you pick the pet you use depending on the encounter and whether you need more ST, AOE, spread cleave, etc to complement the talent build you’re running.
And maybe they could add a talent that allows an instant dismiss (on a fairly long CD) so you can quickly switch pets during an encounter as it changes. (For example, on a boss fight like Echo, you’d have a ST pet out at the start but switch it for an AOE pet for phase 3.)
Since the spec is actually called beast mastery, make it more about actively using the pets and making decisions rather than just pressing a few buttons and the pet stuff happens almost passively.
Because it already got to much you mean? Im using the same action bars with paladin, mage and rouge i can fill it with all of them, but with the hunter half is empty.
By the way, I’ll accept it if it’s right for someone, but then I don’t want to hear any complaining, if the paladin or mage is just stronger, you might have to pay attention to more things with them for it.
If doesn’t have more spells it won’t be any more useful and teams still don’t need it because the lack of utility.
Since I’m a bit of a manic collector and I’m trying to get at least one pet of each family, preferably those that keep their unique name upon capture, I’ve found that there already are some pets that have those kinds of mechanics.
Just one example so far, since I don’t own one of each yet : the Chimera, Exotic Ferocity family, has the “Froststorm Breath” ability that cannot be set to automatic, and that does damage every 2 seconds in a 12-meter area during the 8 seconds of it’s channeling.
Honestly, it’s extremely hard to time and use effectively, the fights move so quickly, you’ll have to made a specific bind and shortcut for it, the Chimera will not move during the channel and if you launch anything else during those 8 seconds it will stop it to respond to the other order, but it exists.
I’m sure there are other nifty things like that I still have to learn, but the main problem is that they add a layer of complexity and timing that you cannot always afford in fast-paced content like M+ runs.
I guess there must be a pet with an ability suited for almost every situation, still need to learn more remember, but actually being able to use them if/when needed on top of everything already going on is a massive drawback.
The pets I see most often alongside other Beastmasters are those with entirely passive, always working, always efficient abilities that won’t add even more buttons to a spec that looks like “just 3 buttons, d’uh” but is actually more complex than that.
But do the Hunter and all three specs need a rework ? Probably, yes, maybe not a full overhaul, but things to differenciate the specs even more, some tweaking to Talents (I’m still not satisfied with the CDs of the Defensives, even if I now learned to use them better), maybe more group-wide utility, but then we’d get the Ultimate Swiss Army Knife able to do everything, maybe even a tad too well, and the problem would shift to other classes and specs, starting (or continuing ?) a vicious cycle of buffs, nerfs, complaints and miserable gaming experience.
I’m honestly quite happy with my Beastmaster, it’s the character I play the most and like the most, I’ve found a few tricks (and got wonderful help and advice on what I was doing not so well) to work around some situation where I felt helpless, and I know, from 26 years of playing on a dozen different MMOs, that “perfect balance between all player’s choices” is just impossible.
In conclusion : some people might not enjoy the class and it’s specs, and that’s fine, some people won’t even allow a Hunter in their groups, or even leave if they see one get invited, that’s fine too (even if when it happens to me my blood boils), it all comes down to finding your own personnal way of having fun in the game.
META and MDI be damned, those things are detrimental to the enjoyment of the vast (silent) majority of the playerbase.
I’ve had to add some shortcut bars and make some macros to fully use all the abilities of my Beastmaster, and you’re telling me that yours are half-empty ?
Either I do too much, or you didn’t read every thing in detail, because there’s so much more than “keep frenzy up, Kill Command on CD”, I got better results after learning a lot on this message board, and just yesterday I was actually almost tied with a Frost Mage in a couple of M+ 16 keystones with almost equal gear and iLVL (one point difference in iLVL, 4-pieces Tier Set, not full BiS on either of us), we went past each other on the DPS, Crowd Control and Interrupts segments several times during those runs.
But I do agree on the lack of group-wide utility, aside from BL, the few things I can do like trapping mobs are very easily broken by other classes and specs, my Tenacity Spirit Beasts can do a tiny bit of healing on the Tank if I’m outside of the 25m range of their Spirit Mend but not really enough to matter and they default to me if I’m in range even if I don’t need healing, I’ve noticed that the speed boost from Cunning pets is no longer shared with the group since Shadowlands S3, neither the health boost from Tenacity pets (I just asked the other members of the PUGhell I was in).
I’ll say again : some tweaks, like every other specs, but not a complete overhaul.
Yes, that kind of thing is fun, but I’m talking about pet abilities that are actually useful and worth stopping their basic rotation for. Froststorm breath hasn’t been updated since it was introduced, so using it is actually a damage loss.
To make tuning more viable, it would probably have to be something in the talent tree that applies to the pet rather than the player character, and based on pet family rather than a specific pet. Something like ferocity pets can gain a or b ability, tenacity pets can gain c or d ability, and so on. And I’d imagine them being significant damage CDs that are worth interrupting the basic rotation for.
But it’s a very new idea that came to me when I read this post, so it would need a huge amount of development if it was to become viable.
I can’t comment on the other classes the poster compared to, but paladins certainly have a LOT more buttons to press than hunters. Druids even more so.
Oh Sweet Basement Cat, yes, I very much agree on that : I’m also in the process of learning to play my Druid (Balance, I tried the other specs and they don’t “click” with my mind) and Paladin (Protection, same thing as my Druid for the specs), and whoa, those rotations and reactions are much more complex that what I’m used to.
Add to that that I’m probably a bit too used to being able to do everything while moving (the main reason why I don’t use the only Talent that cannot be used on the move, Wailing Arrow), and I have horrible results with my Druid because I break my own casts by movement !
BM hunter was perfect in BFA, complete braindead state of gameplay, spam multishot and barbed shot on aoe nothing else (and top the meters). Cobra shot kill command and barbed shot on ST. And now we have to use kill command and cobra shot during aoe, ugh. More buttons is the last thing BM hunter needs.
If i want more engaging gameplay ill go play an alt.
As I see BM is quite the topic, I mean the spec is cool in many ways, pet switch could be a thing I assume with cd in mind for a bit more utility (especially in pve). What Bm might need for now is a bit of fresh air on the right end of the tree (I may be wrong!).
or some occasional combo with existing abilities via a small cd window, but also viable.
… and as I see it, people want some pet transmog, and the only problem that actually stands in the way (except for dev (and their managers) wanting), is that it’s weird for a raptor to spit webs and for people to see what type of pet you have (if it matters). Who knows, this could be implemented if at all.
In old times Hunters Mark was a nice passive debuff-like, utility buff, they could tweak on those types of things.
I never understood why, don’t they tell the community why don’t they add more utility to certain classes, silence is a weak, but a good answer, to dismiss people.
I have 36 action bars, all binded, im using the same since wotlk. I dont know how can you fill it with BM. Maybe with pvp target focus macros.
Tell me what are the many things that you think should be paid attention to?
I think there is not that much:
Frenzy (this includes that you dont have to use barbed on cd, if you have 1 charge ready and BW on cd then do not use it istantly wait for it, until frenzy wants to go down) Simple logic.
Use multi shot to keep Beast Cleave up.
Use your CDs on cd, +use all barbed before BW
I dont think that is so hard, I admit that you have to pay attention to the timers, but a weak aura can track that very well +there is a WA witch is barking when Kill Command ready. You don’t have to do anything with bm hunter that simple logic can’t solve, you don’t have to worry about any aoe breaking a cast etc.
But ofc WASD is a part of your rotation too, because u can use it unlimitedly with BM.
But let’s leave bm to hell, my comment would have mainly been about the overall hunter thing.
All I can say about this is that if everything was so simple again like in BFA, it wouldn’t really have a place among the top dps classes. Because it’s simply a joke if the minimum effort character can do as much as another, which have to pay attention to many more things.
From my point of view, BM can be like that again, but in B tier.
The current one is not a difficult thing either, but the bfa version was even more idiotic.
I also understand that if someone just wants to have fun, and playing BM because of it. But then don’t expect to be above everyone else with 2 buttons.
Now think about it, if the BFA version of BM hunter is S tier, then everyone else who plays with more complicated characters is stupid?
Be powerful, be useful, but not an auto play simulator.
Whoa, ok, I’ll guess that you mean 36 buttons instead of 36 bars of 12 buttons …
And no, 2 bars of 12 are more than what I need, there are empty slots in there.
So I agree, there’s not a whole truckload of buttons to press as a Hunter, compared to other classes and specs.
I was thinking about things like “reactions” outside of the main rotation, Interrupts/Intimidate, some Ice / Tar Traps that are useful against some mechanics or affixes, etc.
I know about those WA’s, but honestly, they hinder me more than they help : that “barking” one makes me jump out of my skin each time, breaking my concentration and rythmn, and I dislike addons in general (I feel like they “play the game in your place” with all those warnings, markers and more, actually preventing you from learning the mechanics yourself, and some of those are deadly), I’ve just kept some “ease of navigation” ones, a couple of databases to track my quests, collections and Achievements without having to alt-tab or open menus, and 2 WAs to have a bar for Frenzy and a square for the Cleaves because I tend to miss refreshes by one second or so if I’m stressed (either by being forced to play against the members of the PUGhell on top of the mechanics of the game, or just because Real Life is too hard sometimes).
I still think that the BM is a tiny bit more complex than just keeping Frenzy, Cleaves and BW on CDs, but that must be because I almost always play in M+ with complete strangers in PUGhell and I most often find myself doing the job of three characters.
Seriously, the Hunter is (in)famous for being less sturdy than a wet paper towel, and I find myself the last surviving member of the PUG, rezzing the healer with Engi gadgets, about 4 times out of 10 in +15 to +17 keystones.
You are right about this, you need a reaction, especially when you get a barbered proc at the last sec. Anyway, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that there’s nothing to do, just that it’s much easier if you can move around freely, and all of your spells are instant (+ofc you are a randged not a malee and have the 40yard randge too).
Everyone else has to pay attention to cc, def, interrupt things either.
With bm hunter, playing around/avoid the basic dungeon mechanics, is much easier than with other classes. And this is the thing that many people do not want to admit and start arguing about.
Mage and Paladin, classes that have been mentioned in this thread, don’t have many more skills to use than the Hunter.
A few more but not many so that these classes are harder to use than Hunter.
It is natural that if you insert all the spells in the bars they are more than those of the Hunter but they are not used all in the rotation, on the contrary…
However, Mage and Paladin are not much harder than the Hunter.
Indeed, for the so-called defensive Paladin has it is even more pleasant to play it than the Hunter that you really have to sweat with his defenses to survive.
The Mage, double blink, shield and iceblock, definitely better for me.