even more breath it seems according to todays PTR
the RE change looks good. But the breath change is just disapointing. Was hoping for a change that would result in breath not being the only heavy hitter.
But I guess they’re happy with the PvP modifier on breath and cba to revamp the other abilities
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eh… how the heck am I meant to actually use all my resources after those changes?
I’m already drowning in resources nevermind killing machine having no cap per minute thus generating more runes and runic empowerment triggering 33% more often…
now that i think of it, this may put the obliteration talent at risk as killing machine will be constantly activating anyway and runes will be generated alot more frequently…
Current concern is wether this is going to completely invalidate obliteration as a choice.
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Anectodes does not mean that we are fine and that we should stop pointing out glaring design flaws in a class spec that has been a mess since it’s inception in legion and only worked for real during the Last patch of Argus thanks to how they fixed it back then, As another pointed out earlier that was Chillbayne in your video you so like to shove in everyone’s face and telling us that we need to sit down, shut up, and think that everything is fine, at the end of that video a rather large hint as to why our dmg feels so weak, especially in pvp. 30-35% or even more of his damage was AUTO ATTACKS, and oblit way far behind even if oblit occupies the second spot, we lost so much since legion, they moved our dmg from our strikes to auto attack. and it hurts, especially on oblit since we also had a 24% crit dmg increase passive on it that we have had since before legion even, now its gone and oblit dmg is laughable because of it, plus Chillbayne is a very skilled player performing in an optimal setting where he has almost 100% meele uptime and can death strike for days, he made an extra effort to prevent his warrior opponents from doing the so called charge heal and it worked.
He even states in the godamn comments that should he face a good UH Dk he would die so hard thanks to necrotic strike. And do please refrain from telling us to Switch spec and to accept a subpar performance of a spec that they HAD NAILED DOWN in legion, it was perfect. As to why i am extra angry to the clownfest we are now forced to play, do you even remember how it was like before the first patch hit us on BFA release? we didnt even have the so called “strong healing” you know claim makes us OP and fine, we had nothing, no transfusion, no 8% dot on apoc, no good talents, they did infact crush most of our pvp and regular talent choices in a special patch because we where to OP as usual, NErf DK.
EDIT. what i mean “worked for real” i mean that both Oblit spec and Breath worked during argus, otherwise it was breath all day erry day, like they are trying AGAIN to pigeonhole in 8.2, thanks blizz, you clueless
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no… all they did was over-do the numbers on a spec they knew fine well was not working in order to mask the issue.
Frost has not been good since WotlK and even then it was sub-par in comparison to both other specs at everything. However the spec in WotlK with the WotlK runes and runic power had excellent potential for the future which was thrown away when they destroyed the class in cataclysm.
I have brought this up every single expansion to date now on one character or another.
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While i agree on most what you are saying, The class was atleast playable at an enjoyable pace during the Argus patch, but indeed Frost has been dumbed down and weakend with every expac since wotlk, i miss my undodgeable unparraiable frost strikes
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not to mention hungering cold which allowed your howling to blast to automatically crit the frozen targets.
In PVE Obliteration is already an invalid choice. breath is above the other 2 choices in that tier by a wide marging.
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Frost is not a real dpser now anyway, it is a sub-par tank/dps hybrid with none of the strengths of either but many of the weaknesses of both, the minor damage gain of breath is simply pointless compaired to the sustainability of obliteration because of this.
in light of a forum’s purpose as a discussion board, I’ll linger on in this debate in hopes of bringing across a finalizing point.
Frost is a fine dps spec and ppl complaining about a list produced by ‘perfect world simulation’ is just tiresome. Have you seen the movie ‘Sully’? it’s about a plot point where a situation is judged by a simulation’s results without considering the human factor.
I can show you plenty of logs on mythic progression raids where I as a frost DK perform much better then the list suggests. Cause let’s get serious; the human factor. Never ever will everyone in a raid perform exactly the way the list sais they will.
If you’re so keen on wanting frost DK’s to work, and based on your frequent posts I guess you are, then don’t gimp your specc because ‘it’s a sub-par hybrid class anyway’. Which btw, is the most utter crap reasoning I’ve ever heard which just shows me you’re at the limit of your knowlegde of the class.
You are responsible on how you perform playing the class, not blizzard. Don’t pick obliteration in PvE, it’s a downright gimp of the class’ potential and every progression based platform will tell you so.
If you start there, you might see why overcapping RP is never an issue and why the aledged changes to the class will benefit its overall perfomance.
This only serves to further my point, the more random factors that can occur, the worse that will translate into human factor and because frost dk has a significant number of RNG factors to deal with, you have to realise that the simulations are showing an ideal resource regen/rime state etc.
This is only detrimental to trying to defend the spec as you are likely not going to see the perfect state of killing machine, rime, auto attack hits, wether runic attenuation or murderous efficiency will proc, wether your dragon will crit and so on, in essence for a death knight the translation from the simulation will actually be alot lower and thus alot worse for the class in comparison to say a marksmanship hunter who just doesnt have to deal with much RNG at all.
This means that while the marksmanship simulation would be at least reasonably accurate, the frost dk sim is simply as useless as rolling 1-100 to see how good the spec is however, this 1-100 caps out at maybe 70 so you can never actually achieve the best result if others do well.
Currently the only reason for anyone to have a frost dk along to pve is that they don’t need healed as much and in pvp there is no reason to take a frost dk.
There do actually seem to be positive changes to Frost in 8.2. With right essences, you can get ~30 seconds of hard-hitting BoS. This would probably be the most optimal option, unless bosses in next raid are patchwork-type I guess (likely won’t be though). On the other hand, with BoS taking 18 RP/sec on PTR, it can make spending GCDs way too tight, and therefore losing BoS more punishing.
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99% of frost dks dont want BOS though. And it’s sooooo bad for PVP.
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based on your profile, I’m guessing you’re reasoning from a PvP point of view, in which case your argument is understandable
but in PvE BoS is mandatory as it is the hardest hitting talent in that tier, and also the most versatile in terms of AoE and ST dmg output. Whereas its ST perfomance is somewhat lacking especially without hero/lust
with the 8.2 changes, it’ll become a much more potent ST hitter next to its already powerfull AoE potency.
Peronally, I would’ve like a cd reduction on both breath and ERW, but I guess that would be a bit OP
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Well yes, I am a PvP player. Breath of Sindragosa is VERY bad for PvP and has always been, very sad for what they did for Frost from a PvP point of view.
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You have increadibly low expectations for frost don’t you?
I mean to say this spec could be tearing soul fragments out of its enemies to attack them, freezing the enemy to the bone, turning enemy peels against them and more.
and… yet you seem to be satisfied with a breath which has no real association with frost, it does not slow it does not freeze it doesn’t chill the enemy in anyway heck it doesnt even make the enemies pathetic magic betray them. In essence it is just fire breath.
If you must know as an enhancement shaman, I have breath of sindragosa except it is a 360 circle, slows everyting inside by 30% and costs a mere 3 power per second on a class which generates power way faster. Oh and it has no cooldown so I can turn it off and on at will and trying to interrupt it wont do a damn thing.
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Enhancement has no runes, and spells costs a lot more maelstrom. But yes, Breath is terrible and should get deleted imo.
not really, obviously I would like to see the class improve, don’t we all?
but I’m trying to make you understand that you’re looking at the class through perfomance tools like dmg meters, logs and such.
But that’s not how Blizzard designs their classes. They give the classes the abilities that define their nature and they perform differently on different platforms and in different circumstances.
In that regard, I can understand your desire for a frost DK’s spells to have more effect that represent their style. But the suggestions you made would make their spells massively OP.
Like Cryroth correctly pointed out, BoS is not a PvP ability for 2 reasons; it has a hefty PvP dmg reducing factor and most of all, it’s very easy to counter. Giving it a slow effect or w/e will make it even weaker. It would be the biggest threat a frost DK has that can be easily countered and every pleb will to know to CC a DK once he pops his breath
In PvE, I don’t see a purpose of a slow effect to BoS. You only use it when you know for certain the mob(s) will stay close to you.
I recall Dk’s having the amount of slow effects you’d expect from the class in regards to its theme, but those were the times when the class was immensly OP. We got enough slow effects as it is. Chains is spammable with a partial root, remorseless winter gives a slow and there’s also Fury and several PvP talents. I work my way around those abilities and adept, I don’t go expecting blizz will change the class because I think their theme is being underrepresented.
call it low expectations, call it what you will. I call it working with the tools you have and making the best of it
There has been no patch in the history of wow where a frost dk has been mechanically overpowered so you clearly do not know what you are talking about. Unholy yes, but frost has never had any actually powerful mechanics and the ones they had got removed anyway.
In legion they were forced to make unprecedented buffs to the spec BECAUSE of the fact it was so bad mechanically and now it has even worse mechanics than it did then with the damage buffs removed.
Furthermore if you are so content that frost should have no mechanics to it then can you explain why it isnt at the very top of damage. Without any form of utility or support effects the spec needs something to set it above others and as damage is the only thing they are capable under what you suggest then only damage can be used to gauge wether the spec is good or not.
meanwhile we have rogues etc with huge amounts of tools doing the highest damage in the game while having directly superior defense despite the fact they should be sacrificing damage in order to do this.
So in essense a rogue is currently better mechanically, offensively, defensively and supportive than a frost dk so can you please explain the balance logic they used when tuning rogues because after all this there isn’t a whole lot you are getting out of playing a frost dk, i used rogue because they are effectively fulfilling the same role slot as the frost death knight.
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based in this I’m pretty sure you’re trolling. And I already gave you reasoning to answer your questions so you clearly cannot wrap your head around that, so I don’t see the point in repeating myself.
Maybe you can watch a stream of me playing my DK sometimes and you can learn a thing or two