“Goblins, sir. A whole mess of the unsavory creatures. It seems they began arriving within a day of—” He broke off. No one had come up with a vocabulary to describe the sword that felt comfortable. “Of the sword-strike,” Mathias continued. “That fast?” Anduin was startled. He kept his expression neutral as he continued to gaze out over the water. The ships and their crews look so small from here, he thought. Like toys. So breakable. “That fast,” Shaw confirmed. “Goblins aren’t the most charming, but they are cunning. And they do things for a reason,” Anduin said. “And those reasons usually involve money.” Only one group could gather and finance so many goblins so quickly: the Bilgewater Cartel, which had the support of the Horde.
This is a very fair point, actually. And I had forgotten about the background info on Gallywix as a kid. However, I’ve gotta disagree on him having a richer background than Gazlowe, who has been in Warcraft since its RTS days. Saying Gallywix has a richer background than Gaz is like saying he has a richer background than Rexxar, which I feel isn’t the case. If it’s a matter of us not knowing Gazlowe’s background from way back when? Blizz could easily drop a story of him as a sprog tomorrow and we’d be done.
I, however, agree unreservedly with your comment that Gallywix’s story has room for a lot. And that how Blizzard handles it will be important. Admittedly, I feel they plan on having him removed given recent dialogue and what-not with Gaz (all this dialogue painting him as a good leader is deliberate - they didn’t have to have them all say time and again what a great leader he is). But! Again, I would state you are right, my initial post did not give Gallywix enough credit.
It does. As it points at how they are the only ones that can both finance and deploy, that huge number of goblins.
Ergo, the rest of the Cartels aren’t as wealthy or resourceful as them.
But goblins don’t have any feelings to hurt, only their wallets! (I actually main a goblin XD This warlock just happened to be the character the forums chose when I first logged in, so stuck with it to avoid confusion).
I’d very much like Lillian Voss to step up. She seems to understand better than other NPCs what it means to be forsaken. Even going so far as to question Thomas Zelling when he asks to be made undead, rather than simply die.
This is very cool. Thank you for your insight. If only he was portrayed more like his younger self in BFA. On the surface however, it appears that he has changed and his best years are behind him.
Without wanting to sound a little obnoxious, that’s probably because the current writer that is calling the shots, doesn’t really like his character that much.
He is the antithesis of the good natured Golden Boy.
A ruthless mobster, that often represents what’s worst of capitalism.
Not exactly the kind of model that you look up to in this era of political correctness and friendly economics.
But yeah, he is interesting. Even as an adult.
Here are some of the lines that showcase how he thinks: “No,” Gallywix said. “We ain’t ever met face to face, Sergeant, so let me explain. I don’t mind selling you if you get careless. I’ll send you to die if it’ll help the cartel’s bottom line. But I won’t get you killed by stupidity or a big dumb weapon for nothing . That ain’t me.”
He glanced at the ring hanging around her neck. Her hands closed protectively around it. An unreadable expression crossed his face.
“For what it’s worth,” he said, "I’m sorry about what happened to your husband in Hyjal. But I ain’t sorry about anything I’ve done. So, yeah, I’m a monster. But I watch out for what’s mine. When I can.
———— My pop had let cheap thugs take things from him. I’d let them take the cookie from me. That was the problem. That was why we were poor. Sure, Skezzo had a gang. Sure, he had weapons and numbers. But I had something ballooning up inside my head like a fleet of zeppelins attacking a gnoll hut: a code, all sharp edges and oiled parts. This business was my pop’s. This business was mine. That cookie was mine. I didn’t blame Skezzo for trying, but no one was gonna take what was mine, no matter the cost.
And that’s not counting the time he threw himself at Garrosh in a fist-fight
id take a random rock over calia as undead leader.
Calia isa thing that shouldve never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever been a thing, she should die or get retconned as soon aspossible and holy infused undead should never ever be mentioned ever again
Calia becoming leader of the forsaken would have the same effect as removing the forsaken as a faction she has no link other than her name, a name that would have her killed on site by any forsaken if you can say one thing about the race it is that they hold a grudge, they held a grudge against the lich king that saw them effectively declare war on all other factions, they held a grudge against Gilneas and its king that ended with the place blighted into the ground, they held a grudge against stormwind that saw a ruined kingdom hold out against assult from all sides if you belive that a menithil will ever sit on the throne of Lorderon while one Forsaken is left sort of breathing then you have forgotten the words spoken at the wrathgate but the Forsaken have not.
Ok.
I am glad to know that.
After reading and thinking about your post, there are my opinions:
I think this has to do with it:
I think given the number of opportunities Thrall has given to Garrosh to the point of asking Vol’Jin, to be more understanding, he considered Garrosh, something similar to a brother.
You don’t go out and kill someone you consider your brother and not be changed by that.
Choosing Garrosh was a mistake that the Horde paid heavily for it.
When they are dueling, Garrosh does made many valid points:
“You made me Warchief !”
“You left me, to pick up your pieces !”
“You failed me !”
Thrall is to be blamed for it and the character reflected that.
But than again he is no living being, there is no such thing as a “living Thrall”.
There is only one fictional character and he was written to chose Garrosh and made to be blamed for it.
And who should we blame for that ?
I think the people who wrote his father death, for the sake of drama, the same people who write villain Warchiefs that make characters like Baine approach the Alliance.
What would be of the Honourable Horde without the Alliance help ?
My opinion:
The Orc Horde had always two divisions, the Shamans and the Warriors.
The Warriors were always the stronger side.
When Gul’Dan came with his demonic influence the Warriors embraced it, with the promise of more power and the shamans were powerless.
From wow gamepedia:
" Varok made the free decision to drink the [blood of Mannoroth] alongside [Grommash Hellscream] and led forces in the sacking of [Shattrath], the [Blood Curse] causing them to murder many innocent draenei, children included."
That’s what happened the last time.
I think the Shamans represent the Honorable side of the Horde, where the Warriors represent the more pragmatic side bound to go to villainy acts.
By the way Thrall is a shaman, while Garrosh and Saurfang are warriors.
A character wrote to be like that.
BfA “amazing” write, right there.
(-1) for Sylvanas and the pragmatic Horde, written as villains;
(-1) for Saurfang and the Honourable Horde, written as hypocrites;
You are right.
But than how a faction that faces so many military disasters can “be able to stand on its own two feet” ?
Let’s analyse it shall we ?
Battle of Angrathar the Wrathgate
From wow gamepedia
“The Alliance loses almost 5,000 soldiers and the Horde loses over 4,000”
And Dranosh Saurfang, a irreplaceable asset.
Loss of even more military staff with the retaliation to Undercity which cause the loss of Varimathas Forsaken, guards and Horde guards.
Siege of Ogrimar:
The Horde loses Nazgrim and all Garrosh’s man and many more man that died attacking the city.
Civil war that rips twice on the Horde’s forces.
Cairne died to Mak’Gora and set the Tauren to be led by Baine, the rest everyone knows …
Broken Shore:
Horde retreated after losing many man and losing Vol’Jin afterwards.
Another irreplaceable character gone.
Sylvanas starting a conflict:
Military loss at the battle of Undercity and the imprisonment of Saurfang.
In the Battle of Battle of Dazar’alor, the loss of a good portion of the Zandalari fleet, their royal guard and their King Rastakhan.
Civil war, still counting …
How can a faction made basically out of Orcs that fled internment camps and after that people who faced extintion, like the Darkspear Trolls, people that were strugling to survive like the Tauren and refugees like the Forsaken, Blood Elves and Goblins can compete with the all mighty “victorious from the second war” Alliance ?
From Wowpedia:
" The war soon came to an end after the final battle at the [Dark Portal] which was subsequently destroyed. The conflict had raged on for over a year, and had seen the destruction of villages and populations on an unprecedented scale, leaving entire kingdoms devastated in its wake.[[9]]
The Alliance would last for many years to follow and led to the nations of Azeroth became more intertwined with each other. Though the Horde found itself thoroughly defeated, the conflict did not secure long-term peace on the continent. Two years later, a new war would once again break out, culminating in the [Invasion of Draenor]."
That was a silly idea from the start in my opinion.
Any doubts look how many times the Horde had to use big guns to fight the Alliance:
Mana bomb on Theramore. A fortified city located in a continent, in a area, where the Horde should dominate, after all two o major cities are located in the vicinity, here: Ogrimmar and Thunder Bluff and the Echo isles home of the Darkspear tribe.
The Blight in Undercity, one battle that the Horde had the home ground advantage and the Alliance was on the Attack.
In this types of battles the defender always needs less numbers than the attacker.
This is what I believe:
The day the present Horde, finds himself in a frontal major battle against the Alliance, it will have even less chances than Orgrim Doomhammer Horde.
It’s easier to manoeuvre a united Orc Horde than a coalition made of different races, where chaos is easier to happen.
I think it’s a case of: “we deserve better writing than Blizzard’s current paltry options.”
Remind me of why they joined Thrall’s horde again …
Complete disconection with Tribal values, no honor sense, dark themes …
If Sylvanas is being retcon as knowing all about Varimathas and his rebellion, this portraits a very poor picture on her.
Her actions caused the Horde to lose, over 4,000 man and Dranosh Saurfang and everyone that died attacking Undercity and Varimathas Forsaken army (traitors).
I agree with this 100%, enough with the drama.
In my opinion, Activision Blizzard should just admit the opposing faction to the Alliance is chaotic and complete 180 degrees of what Alliace stands for.
Yes.
Why ?
Because Garrosh was always meant to be a villain and Thrall was written to chose him …
After watching this video from Bellulargaming:
My opinion:
It seems Baine will be Warchief, Anduin will make peace with him, but because of Sylvanas actions (Burning of Teldrassil) , Genn and Tyrande will be after Horde’s hides.
A split wil occur on the Alliance, between Anduin and Tyrande.
That means a lot of Alliance aggression will happen during Baine reign as Warchief, making him the scapegoat to Horde problems …
What I believe to be extremely unfair in this narrative is setting Baine to clean Sylvanas dirt …
I foresee more “Kill Baine threads” or “Sylvanas was right, Baine is a foul.” threads.
I hope I am wrong in this one …
Because of what will happen above, I believe he will be celebrated as “Finally” someone that “makes things happen”.
They are to be blamed.
I read they introduced Blood Elves, because the Chinese players didn’t want to play a “ugly” Horde.
Look what happen …
My instinct, tells me she will not disappear in BfA.
Garrosh wasn’t killed in Catclysm, he was killed by Thrall in WoD.
Why Varian couldn’t had let Thrall smash Garrosh head and listen to Jaina is beyond me.
A dismantled Horde would give more room for “morally grey” actions happen on the Alliance side during alliance occupation, thus setting another Horde to be reborned under a more pragmatic leader, one that would be more fitting to what Activision Blizzard really wants the Horde to be.
I agree.
My opinion: Shock value, drama.
That’s all Activion Blizzard cares about …
I agree.
I would also add: too lazy to do it …
You are entirely right.
But right now they seem to want us to play their game/narrative as they want.
Any doubts look at the complains from pathfinder in general forums.
Players wanted it gone, they reintroduced again in BfA …
Sorry for the long post.
This is just somethings that being going on my head lately …
1 - Yes characters change, especially after suffering. But those changes should not be dismissed based on the people they used to be. For example, a wise and patient character that becomes short-tempered and stupid after suffering some affliction, is still short-tempered and stupid now, regardless of their former selves. And we would be remiss to judge their current value based on who they used to be.
2 - It doesn’t matter how bad you think the writing for a character was (until something gets retconned), that character still acted in that way. Still said and did those things. It is canon. And, until stated otherwise, there is no reason to believe that their portrayal is not what the developers intended, or that they will be written differently in the future.
![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")