Old raid/dungeon titles/achievements/mounts should not be available in new expansions

OLD RAID/DUNGEON TITLES/ACHIEVEMENTS/MOUNTS SHOULD NOT BE AVAILABLE IN NEW EXPANSIONS.

Also, why are titles available on alts that were not achieved by them?
This totally removes the RPG aspect of MMORPG.
A level 1 King Slayer? Riiite… This needs to be fixed.

Old raid titles are worked hard for 2 achieve. They mean something special and keeping them in game when a new expansion comes out means I can just run back to ICC 1 shot the boss on HC and claim the title.

Now days what’s the point of even going for a title if you know you can just 1 shot it if you wait a bit.

I think you guys understand what I’m saying so please lock titles and raid achievements/mounts away after expansions thus retaining their meaningfulness.

Your just making the game feel like everyone can now do every when ever and makes everything feel like there is no accomplishment in trying hard anymore.

PS. Stop pandering to noobs who complain about difficulty and giving them everything they want with out deserving it.

Theres the “famed” title for your epeen needs

Mounts and achievements keep old content alive. It would be a mistake to remove them.

CE and some titles are exclusive to doing it while current content. That is more than adequate.

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Yea, i also don’t think removing them is desirable.

The point of rollover into the next expansion is quite an arbitrary point in time to use for determining if someone “worked hard for 2 achieve”.

I can assure you that nobody that did Emerald Nightmare achievements on the last day of Legion, had to really put in much effort, so where do you really draw the line ?

The “only achievable when its current” thing that you’re looking for, is basically already implemented with the whole “ahead of the curve” family of feats/achievs anyway now.

The reward, for people that do the content when it’s current, is that they get to use those mounts right away, when they do still mean something.

If you walked around on invincible during WotLK people may have been impressed. If you walk around on it now no one will bat an eye. So even though the person who got it back then, and the person who gets it today, both get the same reward, it no longer has the same value.

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Because otherwise you’re locking people in to the character they used to play, putting an (ever increasing) price on being able to switch to a different class down the road.

Besides, it’s the player that put in all that effort to kill the Lich King on 25HC soon after it’s release, not the character, so why shouldnt be able to call himself the king slayer.

Sorry goa, I know your a new player and probably don’t like what I’m talking about because it would mean you would have to play the game with effort before having god hero.

Punyelf “Mounts and achievements keep old content alive. It would be a mistake to remove them.” This is a good point but still diminishes our efforts.

This is the problem I have, Blizzard can preserve those achievements and give players who fought hard for thing in the long life of WoW a way to preserve those moments and keep their dignity.

This is the point of an RPG. Why would we want to encourage people to play 5/6/7 different characters “mainly so they can probably farm more RNG”
It makes no sense from a lore or RPG perspectiving having the title above the name of a character who did nothing. To me it just doesn’t make sense and seems a little bit rediculous.

None of these things were available back when WoW was at it’s peak I’m just saying.

I have no problem with the current game but these 2 issues really bother me.

Also Cutting Edge and Ahead of the curve are totally useless as all they are are hidden little books thrown in the back of your library that no one but a raid leader LFM will see.

I know this post will be hated by newbies who just want to be able to basically get tons of cool stuff from old content and don’t like the “difficult” aspect of the game but I think blizzard also needs to stop pandering to these noobs who want everything for free and hate difficulty.

I don’t think it does. Like i said before, both Player A who got Invincible in April 2010 (likely the first person on the realm to have it) and Player B who farmed it solo last week, they might have received the same item, but they didn’t get the same reward.

Player A was probably getting at least 30 whispers a day for months, from strangers drooling over his mount, he’d be a dwarf among midgets, the stuff of legend. People would brag about once having been put in the same dungeon as him by the group finder.

Yet last week, when Player B flew into Orgrimmar on the new steed that he spend the last 40 weeks farming (for only for 20min or so per run granted), nobody bat an eye at him. No whispers, no nothing. Maybe a “nice gz” from a friend after telling him what finally dropped.

All that stuff around getting Invincible is the part that mattered, not the horse itself. … man…i hate horses…

Mmm, I don’t know to be honest.

It’s not an unfair argument or anything, but i feel arguments of atleast equal weight can be (and are) made for the exact opposite.
I also can’t really picture a good way to implement it which isn’t subject to introducing a bunch of new problems.

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One of those problems (the big one)
Im just going to stick with Invincible as an example (the reward for killing the Lich King in ICC during WotLK), but obviously it applies all over.

If the changes you desire were implemented, Invincible would’ve only dropped during WotLK and stopped being available entirely once Cataclysm got released.
Now, back then, if im not mistaken, it was a 100% drop rate on 25hc (the mount doesn’t drop on the 3 other difficulties 10n/10hc/25n).

The world first kill LK 25hc was on 2010-03-26, Cataclysm went live on 2010-11-23, that’s about 34 weeks (so 34 resets). In order to have a team of 25 players capable of killing the hardest raid boss at the highest difficulty (let alone in a world first race), you need a raidteam/guild bigger than 25 players (sometimes people can’t make it, ppl have lag/issues, sometimes you need a specific comp in order to be able to beat an encounter, etc).
Let’s assume those top guilds only ran 35 players for the rest of the expansion (it was probably more) and nobody new got recruited. It would mean that 1 of those 35 guys (who helped get the world first kill), would not have Invincible.
Meanwhile, a couple lucky guys in some middle of the pack casual guild, who never bothered with ICC until they were in full Ruby Sanctum gear in september/october that year, they clear the raid a couple times and a couple of them get Invincible.

This is not a fair system at all, it does not reward those “who worked for it” at all. Killing the LK at the end of WotLK wasnt a complete a joke, but it would be on par with being able to do Uldir Mythic this week, in reach for plenty of people.

And sure, ultra casual players wouldn’t have had a chance of getting it (i don’t think thats such a good thing, but lets put that aside) but many many hardcore players who worked hard since day #1 would still not have it, while at the same time, many luckier players of average skill, who put in minimal effort actually would have it. Very bad situation if you ask me, keeping dignity isn’t how i would describe it. It would be way worse than the current situation. It might serve to “preserve those moments”, certainly for that 35th player in the worldfirst-guild who got screwed over, he might quit the game. And yea the lucky casual raiders who got one near the end, they’ll be loving it, but i don’t really see how they deserve any more prestige than the other 24 players that helped them get that kill (all of whom didnt get the mount).

Also note: the examples i used were extremely conservative. Obvously most competent guilds would be much slower than the #1 guild in the world at the time. They would have had fewer weeks to farm the Lich King, and thus much fewer mounts to share around, making the problem way worse than just the 1 out of 35 in my example.

Another problem, shortage of butts

Another problem, we only have 1 butt. We can only ride one mount at a time. Being one of those rare pro raiders who got Invincible during 3.3, you’re well positioned reach similar status in say Firelands and get the mount there. Now after a while you own a bunch of them, but you can still show off 1 at most, the other ones (that symbolize those huge accomplishments) are now just as unacknowledged/hidden as curve achievements are in the current system, which kinda diminishes a lot of the supposed benefits of the changed system.

Other side-effects

Massive content purge
Other (in my opinion negative) side-effects include that you’ve now basicly trashed like half the content that Blizzard spend the last 2 decades building.
Stand at the ICC entrance on a wednesday and look at how many people flock over there, i bet i could literally spot hundreds while i eat my breakfast. How many of them do you think would be going there if it wasn’t for invincible, 1% of them ? i wouldn’t be too surprised if it’s even less. Sure you could say “they’re only doing it for the mount”, sure, but they’re still out of their own free will spending time in the game and visiting areas they’d otherwise likely never go.

Bye Collectors
Filling the missing pieces in your collection (be it mounts or pets or achievements or w/e) is a fairly common activity. It’s not for everyone, sure, but it’s one of only a few key things that can keep long time players playing for over a decade (in fact, the only bigger reason imo is the friendships made with other players). Your change would almost entirely obliterate that aspect of the game.

It would send many veterans packing, with a cascading effect.

Neither were things like Mythic+, that doesn’t really mean that removing it from the game would make the game better.

I never really buy this argument.

That would imply that if they brought back all that old challenging content in say a timewalking-style fashion (where it’s scaled so its no longer as easy), then you’d be ok with people earning these rewards now.

Perhaps you are, but 95% of the people i hear making this argument usually arent. They just wanna pull up the ladder behind them after getting something they considered hard.
“Now that im rich after winning the lottery, i can see the level of taxation is out of control!”

I don’t think many raid leaders look at peoples feats either :slight_smile:

They could give some rewards with the curve-family of achievements, but it should probably be localized to the related raid instance.
The raid-skip-quests that many raid instances have (think hellfire citadel for example), could have been made curve-exclusive.

That would give a nice (time saving) benefit to players who did the raid atleast once while it was current, but it doesn’t lock anyone else out from anything (they just have to work harder now, killing useless bosses, than the person who put in effort back in the day).

I’d be ok with something like that (though i don’t really find it a pressing issue).

I don’t think blizzard is really encouraging people to do that necessarily.
That fact that you can improve your chances at getting something you want, by having more attempts is just inherent in reality. And if they were to make raid (loot)lockouts accountwide to prevent that, they’d be killing many many other (perhaps in your view more acceptable) forms of play.

Besides, if someone wants to put in 3x the work to have 3 rolls of the dice, i don’t see a problem.

More to the point, locking people into characters is bad, not for any altoholic reason, but just because very few players picked a class in vanilla and stuck with it all the way through to BfA.
Trying other classes keeps the game fresh(er).

People should be able to choose what they want to play based on what they enjoy the most (its a game after all).

The fact that they may have to put in some work to gear up their other character, fair enough, but stripping them of all their accomplishments because “it was on another character” isn’t something i think is good.

Maybe, but following that reasoning there are 50.000 other things that don’t make sense either, you can’t conform to labels perfectly.

I don’t think there are any rules a game should adhere to , just to fit neatly into its assigned category.
If Blizzard thinks of something new and it’s something players would enjoy without real negative consequences, they should roll with it. If that means that wow would be classified as a Flight simulator instead of as an RPG, then i could live with that.

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One thing i could get behind though, is that maybe Titles related to (for example) completing raids, shouldn’t be available on characters under the level of that raid.

So ICC-related titles could be grayed out until you reach level 80 on whatever character. I don’t think this solves any big/real problem, but i can see the logic in that, and it wouldn’t have any negative consequences that i can see.

That solution still won’t work for everything though. If there’s say a PVP achievement for killing 100.000 gnomes, which gives a title, it makes just as little sense for a level 1 player to have that, as it did with the ICC-Title.
But it’s not as clear to me how you could solve that one

(like, record the level of the character who earned the achievement, and then use that as the minimum level. That’s like a whole bunch of extra work again, besides, it just moves the goalposts. Because i can think of more examples that wouldnt be solved by that solution either)

Anyway all this discussion is pointless, because all of those old-raid titles, achievements and mounts can’t be removed now, because it has been already trivialized by not being removed when it was current.

So, Blizzard can’t go back and remove achievements or mount from ICC now, 10 years later. The only thing they can do is remove any of this after the patch or the exapansion when it is current is left behind. So, any non-BFA non-removed content is out of the quest, it could have been removed before but today is too late.

Anyway, in the case of the achievements those can’t be removed too, it wont make sense, because that means all the achievements earned in any expansion in raid will become Legacy Achievements with no achievement points, and for some that would make them worthless, after all there is always big complaints when i great list become Legacy and lost their points like it happened with Ulduar ones. If you want to feel better for completing a dungeon or raid achievement when it is current there is already some information that will difference you from anyone who complete it soloing in the next 10 years: The achievement data, is not the same an ICC achievement dated on 2008 that one dated on 2019.

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So play the game with effort.

You like pve? grab the “famed” title.
Fancy arenas? grab the “season gladiator” title.

You argue for curves and ce’s as a measure of effort? Only for the person who gets them, otherwise none cares, everyone can just buy them.

Even the famed title to a extent for example, as one dude from top 10 I met in a island wearing it and I said “famed :slight_smile: nice”.
His answer: meh, everybody has it now

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