Pffff I don’t know where you got those numbers from but I can’t do 10k DPS with Combustion up, even with 201 Ilvl and them using no CDs against it.
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The Mage I play with does that number EASILY though. For around 3-4s he’s much above 10k sometimes.
Meteor is 8-12k. Pyros are 6 to 7k. Fire Blast is 3 to 4k. So each GCD is 9 to 11k. For 3s. And there is the Meteor damage to add on top.
He using Rune of Power and the Crit legendary?
From what I understand thats the only way to get the meteor to those numbers with with the crit legendary and Kyrian
Depends on the match-ups for Rune. And yes for the crit legendary as he has not crafted Triune Wards yet. No for Kyrian though, he’s NF.
We play Rogue Mage to kill stuff, damage is too high, and purge specs too popular, to bank on Triune to last longer in a significant way as double DPS.
But the point is, whatever he plays, it isn’t a super cheesy build not working vs good players given who we queue into, and he has the DPS mentioned above.
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Ah okay, yeah… hes playing a very all in build then, Gelu plays it too. Its really strong when you can get it off, but if you can’t or the other team do a do job avoiding the dmg as a Mage you lack alot of survivability so you generally lose to people who play around the go’s really well. Raiku and Xaryu talked about this on their pod cast thing actually.
Yeah, you don’t need all the extra dmg from Rune and that crit legendary, thats why I preferred Triune. You can still 100 - 0 people on a clean go.
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If you have a clean go it means you can get it off. You don’t make sense here.
Warriors with plate armor (for rogue damage right), a 20% DStance, a 30% wall, Ignore Pain, and all those disruption tools, will not leave you several goes to win before you die, wards or not, especially if paired with a Holy Pala. The one go you’ll have between the trinkets, Divine, Sac, and Intervene, needs to be lethal through mitigation.
And I would say there is a reason.
I mean, if you have a clean go you can 100 - 0 without the crit legendary and rune of power. But with Rune and the Crit legendary you don’t really need a clean go with cross CC since the dmg is insane it will kill through certain CD’s.
You can easily kill through D stance with CD’s even without Rune etc, but I wouldnt commit CD’s into a Warrior thats walling etc. But yeah it will take a few go’s to kill with a Hpally, you have to get the go’s off DR consistently.
Hes the only top Mage using it, I think its okay if you play RMPala, but I dont think it works as well with RMP, not 100% sure though.
It is something that depends a lot on what you face as well.
That literally applies to every single comp you face as Rogue Mage or Rogue Mage healer. It’s just that vs teams such as Pala War they require more goes to die, so you might die first if you can’t bypass some CDs with huge damage.
You don’t always get to choose. If first go is Pala Divine Shield, second trinket, third warrior trinket and he pre walls before DRs for the fourth, either you go, or you die because the game was too long already. I don’t know at what mmr you play at, but vs competent people you don’t get to reset every go.
And think a bit now. With WW and Arms being played so much, and RSham, Holy and Disc being played so much, what are the odds that you find a PS, an Earthen Wall, a stormbolt or a disarm (if you stun healer first, and if you don’t there will be a dome, an AM, etc) , or BoP finding their way into your goes ?
Again, the meta matters.
Im playing on the same rating as you at the moment. I was abit higher… but you know, LFG life gives and it takes away.
This is why you cross CC the healer and off DPS so they can’t disrupt the go. If he PS as soon as you land the CC, just dont repoly, let the DR drop and reset without committing CD’s into it.
Auto attack will be aura of reckoning.
"When you or allies within your Aura are critically struck, you gain Reckoning.
At 50 stacks of Reckoning, your next weapon swing deals 250% increased damage and will critically strike. In addition, it activates Avenging Wrath for 6 seconds."
Takes a long time to activate. So long in fact you barely ever see it proc in arena.
Rets have strong burst but they do not one shot.
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Mmr and rating are not linked that much. Out of curiosity I checked, I don’t believe we play on the same rating as far as Rogue Mage goes. RMX… could be, the rating I have I got helping people to 2.1 so I don’t even know how much I have at the moment.
A nice theory. You obviously didn’t play into decent Ret Arms Disc teams at all.
It is not possible to land everything at once. Arms is last ? Disarm, stormbolt, or intervene follow up. The last two will be here next go as well, the first every two. Ret last? Sanc. Disc last ? That would be a throw. And we didn’t talk about ANY trinket nor defensive.
Again, vs good players you will not get clean goes, or very rarely, against several comps in this meta.
I appreciate it that you try to teach me how to Rogue Mage but I don’t think it is a very wise move by you, no offense.
Btw no Priest drops his PS before the millisecond a follow up comes off Kidney, unless you already used major CDs during Kidney. Unless they are bad.
Do realise something. If you Kidney a Priest and so not Cheap Shot the Warrior right after you will not have a go. If you do, and it’s an orc (99.99% of the Warriors are atm ot feels like), the SECOND Cheap Shot will fall off BEFORE the Kidney on healer is even over. They can freely choose whether there is a need for PS or not, because even of you land a poly then the Warrior will stop the Rogue for 100% of Poly duration, and stop any re on his healer. And if it’s 3s we’re not even accounting for their third guy trying to peel as well. And so, you will not kill him.
There is a reason why Sub teams (and by extension Sub Mage) are not supposed to win an Arms at the moment, and the big burst Mages bring with this build sometimes is an answer to kill in the very briefs windows you have.
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I was 2379mmr before the rough session yesterday.
I played into Berily, Monkarn and another R1 Warrior… we almost won too, but the Monk managed to land a kill on our Rogue as we killed the Warrior, then my Disc was OoM after and… well WW dmg, you know how it is.
Its not Disc Ret Warrior, but the level of players on those 2 classes more than makes up for a 2700 exp’d Ret, Warrior Disc.
Okay, sure… you can talk down to me all you want, but when I say this is what you aim for as an RMP you tell me you know better. Sure sure.
If I put a meteor on the person we go and follow it up with a pyro or 2, the Rogue uses just 1 charge of Dance, the Disc will PS him… there’s enough dmg off that to drop someone to 10% quite easily with the Disc dmging him too.
Do you realise that if when you cheap the Warrior then your healer (if a Disc) casts MC on the warrior while the Mage Polys the healer and you then stun the kill target the Warrior will have to trinket to do anything, then the next go you do the same but now the Warrior sits the MC.
As I said … but anyways !
No. You don’t understand. The Ret Arms Disc tools are specifically preventing most of the goes. If it’s not that comp it’s not that comp. You can’t take what I said about that one comp and say “look we queued into another comp and it worked and it counts because there are good players too”. Although Warrior WW is annoying as well, a WW does not have Sanc and BoP.
So this one line is, no offense again, pretty dumb :
A Monk does not have Paladin spells. Period. It’s not because the Monk was 3.4 that it will defuse the goes more than a 2.7 ret. It. Does. Not. Have. The. Spells.
You wouldn’t say “yeah but we were able to CC properly a 3.4 Thug Cleave on one go so it means we can do the same vs a 3k rsham shadowplay because there is a 40p rating difference”, right ? I hope you wouldn’t.
That’s not my goal. But then again trying to tell me how RMX or RM works is kind of… arrogant, don’t you think ?
Again, you show misunderstanding. I did not say it is not what you should do. I said that in the meta many comps can PREVENT IT. And so you need to be able to win when it happens. I think it’s clear, no ?
I mean yeah some people die to this. Then, there are better players. Players that know when Meteor is ready (you’re aware that it has a cooldown and a travel time, I’m sure) so not only will you not have it every go, but on top of that people have time to react to it … by stacking up. If you queue double melee and you get a Meteor on only the warrior with CC everywhere else… sorry but they played terribly.
And then again. We do agree that perfects go back to back off DR happen at the very best every 30s. Three players, that’s 1m30 of trinkets. And then one go they need to live without one. PS, pre totem to delay or tank, divine, bop, orcs messing things up, CC on your team just as DRs are about to allow you to go… so many things good players do. That will prevent you to just have free goes as what you describe as often as it sounds through your posts.
Whaaz team released quite a few top rating RMP games and even when THEY play it isn’t that easy.
Either way. A guy said Mages could do 10k DPS in Combust. You said no. I said yes, explained how and explained that it’s not a cheese build, you yourself said it’s even used at high rating by one of the best and finally said it was indeed possible… what’s the deal ? Conversation over no ? Yes, Mages can deal more than 10k DPS briefly in Combust. That’s all.
I wish I did hit 15k.
So what MMR have you been playing on then?
No I know this, I’ve played into it a few times, but you can win if you’re able to get clean go’s, which isn’t easy vs that I know.
If you say so.
WW/Warrior/Rsham still has the ability to do insane dmg and disrupt, and players of that calibre will consistently do a good job of it, I’d say they’d do a better job of shutting down and disrupting than a 2700 - 2800 Ret, Warrior, Disc Would due to their experience and their classes. Thats why I used it to draw a comparison.
I’m not trying to tell you anything, I’m saying that cross CCing well can help you beat Warrior team. You’ve also been trying to tell me how to play RMP, that’s also arrogant wouldn’t you say? it go’s both ways.
But if you cross CC them its much harder for the to disrupt you is my point, they have to use trinkets to disrupt, but after that they sit the CC which makes it alot easier for you to get your dmg out on a go.
You can place meteor in a way where it only hits one target, even if they stack if you put the edge next to the person you want to hit then you’ll only hit him (the hit radius is slightly larger than the placement animation suggests) UNLESS they are standing directly ontop of each other. You do the same with Frozen orb when the healer and DPS are close to each other.
I didn’t say it was easy, I’m point out thats what you have to try and aim for if you want to kill those kind of teams.
I didn’t so no you cant do it, I said I can’t do it with mine and was sceptical. Then when you mentioned you have a Mage that does it, I though for a minute and then I remembered the Rune of power and crit legendary build that was mentioned by Raiku. So then I agreed to it after asking if the Mage was splaying those.
i prefer having overkill personally cause a lot of the time things don’t go according to plan. i’m trying to convince my mage to try rune, hasn’t worked yet.
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They both work, I’d say its down to preference on what you want. Incanters ward is more reliable imo since its always there for you, Rune is strong if you can get your combustion off with it though.
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I’m not really trying to have a bragging contest here. Higher with some partners will have to be enough of an answer for you. I don’t think it’s too hard to believe given previous ratings obtained.
It’s less arrogant when the guy with the most experience says “this doesn’t work here” than when the guy with fewer exp says “no but you should cross CC bro” no kidding I made my way up the ladder without even trying to CC, I thought we had to rot the enemy as Rogue Mage X…
Aaaaand some comps you can’t cross CC easily.
I’d say go watch Whaaz and Raiku (you probably did already right ?). And now, count the % of each game where the entire enemy team is in CC when they play against players with similiar play level.
I can spoil a bit, it is very low.
Ah, yes. There was no implication that it wasn’t true then ? I wonder how helpful the reply was then. My bad for believing you initially answered no, before thinking.
And because it isn’t easy having extra damage is really a boon.
Previous ratings obtained means nothing in a new expansion, even mine, I finished at 2700 MMR, just didn’t bother pushing for the CR, but it doesn’t matter, games changed now.
How do you know you have the most experience as RMP? you don’t, just because you got a higher CR doesn’t mean you know the comp better… I’m pretty sure you played a mix of RMP and RMPala last season, I ONLY played RMP, there’s a good likely hood I have more experience in an RMP than you do. Rating isn’t a great measure of skill anymore, its just a number than anyone can obtain with the right comp and class…
But I said further down that “I didnt say it was easy”.
I was very sceptical yes, but as I said, when you’re playing with a guy thats doing it I took a moment to think how and remembered that build. Do you know how many people are exaggerating things on this forum at the moment? forgive me for not talking it at face value.
But so is extra survivability, its a preference thing, if you want to 1 shot stuff, play Rune, but if it doesn’t work out and you can’t get it off properly you won’t live aslong as a Mage with Triune for example. Its a play style choice.
Each to their own I suppose, I personally find Rune to be abit gimmicky, but thats just an opinion.
What a misconception. The rating you get is linked yo your overall game awarness, among other things. This doesn’t vanish from one expansion to another. There is a reason why the best players are often the same.
I remember reading on a previous post that you started off serioud arenas as Mage somewhere in BfA and improved over the seasons. Do you truly believe that everything you did doesn’t matter and that you are now back at the same level you started at ? Do you think how to read the game to bait kicks and land that poly is different now ? Do you think knowing when to alter right has NOTHING to do with knowing when to temp shield right ? Do you believe coordinating as a team around DRs and potential CC is different now ?
Surely you aren’t serious.
Lets pretend that a 300 points difference means nothing yes. I’m fairly sure I’m worth a 3150 guy anyway, just as that guy is easily worth the top 10, it’s a number, after all.
Sadly… yes.
That is correct. There is, actually, a cleae difference of playstyle amongst the top mages you mentionned earlier (at least that’s my feeling), and they happen not to play the same things always.
Well… that’s true often but then again, comp matters. Would you play Triune into Rsham Ele Shadow ? I wouldn’t.