They already tried that in WOD where you couldn’t queue for heroic dungeons if you didn’t do it at a certain level but people did not like it. The problem is not that the game is unforgiving, the problem is that the majority of the people who play are garbage and even worse, they are unwilling/uncapable of trying to improve how they play.
Again. The answer is NO.
If you want 5-man raids then go bother the raiders. Leave M+ alone.
If you think M+ is too hard then we can discuss that. But the timer stays.
Wow, really narrowminded take there. People learn in different ways.
No, that’s not what I asked for. You can design quests so they learn you how to use your rotation and burst windows, then that quest would take you into situation where you are to use the skills they’ve just taught you in order to beat the quest without handholding, but you’d still need to execute what you’ve learned.
Even more, they could have persistent grades after each encounter that give you pointers to your performance and tips on how to improve.
Just practice, yes. No rewards. Maybe just gold to offset the repair costs.
Not really. When Classic was current, the internet wasn’t all that much. There weren’t any addons, there were no guides, there was no youtube. We played raids by going in and looking at the mechanics and what mobs did, to strategise how to defeat them. We had to figure out everything by ourselves. Players then were just as good as now. You’re just a little spoiled now with all the helplines available to you. All those same players from vanilla came back for the rerun of Classic, and we crushed it too the second time, because of all the info available.
Again, that forces you to play the keys you have at the level you have. I would prefer a system where you can choose a dungeon (maybe even one not in rotation), to train on whatever level, with possibly QoL features, like the ability to repop packs of mobs or bosses, timers per pull, etc.
And yet again, that’s majorly an issue with the game itself. It doens’t have a learning curve at all. It moves you from braindead leveling into easy dungeons, where you don’t learn anything because the overpowered tank who for some reason is “helping a friend” is solo clearing all the content, same for heroic.
Then you get thrown in M+, and everything changes drastically. Now, if you don’t know your rotation and cd’s or the boss mechanics, you’ll likely die or be a burden to your group. All of a sudden a tankbuster oneshots you if you don’t have defensives up or didn’t pop a cd. If you don’t know how to ramp up your healing, because you never had to in the past, you’re unable to keep up with the damage intake.
Sure, you can learn all these things in lower dungeons or M0, and get flamed everytime you make mistakes, which are inevitable, and that’s how we get to a most toxic playerbase, who has no more patience for it, and it becomes this elitist little group of a few hundred same players who do high keys, while the rest of the playerbase just gives up on it alltogether.
But, I understand that’s how some of you want it. A little club, all to yourselves.
And again, I didn’t say for the current M+ to be scrapped. The timers stay.
It’s just an added feature to also have untimed M+ dungeons, just for training purposes.
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Yeah, and the bosses had 3-4 abilities.
And because of how easy the content was. There is no comparison to the difficulty of the 2 games.
TBF classic was ok in difficulty for its time, but you are comparing a game of 20 years ago, to the same game right now with 20 years of development time and friction with the best players in the world. If you really believe that the difficulty in classic is anywhere close to the current game, then you just have not played any challenging content in the current game.
But as for your suggestion:
If you just want a practice mode, 100% up for that. It is just an addition that does no harm to the game.
I doubt many players apart from the top pushers will use it for practice, but it does not harm anyone.
The reason I say that noone will use it, is that I disagree with the assumption that the game does not teach you stuff. Sure in terms of rotation it does a poor job (because let’s be fair, every patch and even inside a season those things change), but for dungeon abilities it is the same as in classic.
The dungeons have all the same abilities across all the levels. The problem is that players brute force the lower keys with their gear and believe ALL abilities are healer mechanics that they must deal with. When they reach a high enough level where they die from 2 abilities overlapping or a heavy ability going off without a defensive, they are conditioned to blame the healer. This is not the game’s fault, because they knew what abilities were used in the previous key, they just were ignoring them believing it was not their job to do anything about them.
You are not getting kicked out of the dungeon when the timer runs out. You can complete any m+ dungeon in any time you want. Find friends, groups and communities that like to play slowly and you’re golden.
If it’s literally just practice I have no concern with it, I just expect it to be a wasteland and that it will cause a torrent of “Add rewards to untimed mythic+” threads.
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Keep them timed the day timed is removed i lose my intrest and just move onto a new MMO.
What i do wanna see tho is old affixes return that where better and more fun then current boring affixes, maybe tune dungeons a little better but no timing has to stay.
Make the crafting system more obvious to, its as if it is non existant for most players, while it gives you much better buffs for damage healing or tanking.
Yes, but they were more interesting than just another swirly on the floor to run in or out of. There was some thought behind every encounter, f.i. in Naxx, every boss was unique. You didn’t have 2 encounters with similar mechanics.
Nowadays, to be honest, most bosses feel more or less the same. There’s a tankswap mechanic, people need to dodge in and out of stuff. Look, I know it’s subjective, but I find modern day raids quite boring.
I never said the games were comparable. The claim that elicited my response was that “players could barely wipe their own butt”, to which I say, not so. Players were just as good as they are now. We’ve all evolved with gaming over the years. If they would’ve gamed then, in the vanilla era, none of these new players would’ve surpassed any other player at that time. Modern day Wow has just added a hyper turbo version through Mythic and M+. There was no such thing in Classic.
Well, I guess it’s just another thing to test out. I don’t think it would be all that hard or a lot of work to implement.
Yes, and as I’ve replied to two other people before, in that case you are restricted to the keys you have. I’d like a system where you can choose the dungeon and level of M+ (even able to change the M+ level inside the instance), and QoL elements, like timers, being able to respawn mobs and bosses, maybe have cue cards on request that show you best rotation and burst window sequences, maybe even show you report cards after each pull.
Again, no one said anything about removing timed M+.
Sorry but here you are wrong. Even ignoring the part of the skill about knowledge, the average “skill” of a gamer depends on what kind of environment that player is in. Back in the day most of the players came either from single player environments or rts/old mmo environments.
Today the average gamer has spent so much time in competitive/online games that just the experience from that environment will make a difference.
Not that there were not crazy gamers in the classic wow scene, especially those that dabbled in competitive rts, but those were the minority. Now the average skill is way above the old average, and especially newer players that come from other games have skill/reflexes that would put past players to shame.
Yep 
agree with you .
Then you have missed the whole discussion. The title of the thread is about making mythic plus nontimed without timers.
Really? You’re telling me, the one who started the thread, that I missed the whole discussion? Reading clearly isn’t your forte…
That’s why they introduced Delves, which made M+ till 7 and normal Raids close to useless.
If anything, they tried to cater to everyone ending up in satisfying close to nobody.
The issue with keys right now is challengers peril alongside the increased scaling. They need to remove it in season 2 imo. I got keystone hero last 3 or 4 seasons but I feel zero motivation to push for it this season because you get punished for playing higher