The forsaken are the citizens of lordaeron. Arthas betrayed the menethils, just as much as he betrayed his people. He killed his father too, if you skipped that part.
Their hate for her brother doesn’t make them forget their roots and what they always deep down craved.
Nope. That wasn’t ridicule. That was cluelessness to extreme. Which was a big joke, but i decided to continue explaining anyways.
Do you play WOW? like EVER?
Half the characters CLAIM they don’t want something.
Thrall doesn’t want to be warchief, but now he’s part of the council.
Baine doesn’t want to be the leader of the taurens, yet he is.
After the Death of voljin, trolls wanted Rokhan to be the new darkspear leader and he doesn’t want it, yet he’s deciding to do it anyways.
Half the characters there DON’T WANT something yet, they still are doing it. The fact that you’re so obviously ignorant to all these little ques and clues that blizzard’s leaving in the game is astonishing. You want a billboard with the name of Calia Menethil as the next forsaken queen in orgrimmar before getting the clue as to how likely that’s the case for the future?
No. I’m just not in the mood to search through 50 different interviews Ion has done in the past 2 months to find something that most players here know about yet you still don’t want to believe.
You can waste your own time looking for that piece of interview.
But now since you’re just too ignorant and annoying,
Also, I’m annoyed by you because you twist everything in a way that is obviously ridiculous, to justify a wrong thing for the sake of having the story turn out the way you want it to.
But guess what? Sylvanas went garrosh 2.0 style even though nobody liked it. We got lots of leaders no one likes. It is what it is. The story often turns the way you don’t want it to. And ignoring all the facts in front of you that’s literally showing you what their plan is, for the sake of not liking it, is annoying to deal with.
I think players and Blizzard should be careful not to tirelessly pursue a path of pure fan service.
I mean, the story of Warcraft is not supposed to be Disney’s Cinderella. Sometimes it’s meant to take a turn for the worse. Sometimes it’s meant to feel demoralizing, tragic, sad, and undesired.
The major theme of the story – war – demands that sometimes.
Some of the best writing Blizzard have done has been in regards to the Night Elves and the Forsaken in the War of Thorns, because it carries through the consequences of war in a manner that is impactful and is felt by the player – through emotion and through gameplay.
For that reason it would be irresponsible to then immediately pursue a path of fan service and give players a bunch of things they want, just because they don’t like the current situation.
Not having a capital because it’s been burned down or covered in poison is supposed to feel terrible. That’s the point of the story. War has negative consequences.
It would be irresponsible to immediately create a new capital city with air conditioning and free public transport, just because people think that’s nicer than having a burned-down husk of a tree, or a poison-filled ruin.
Going through hardship, suffering and loss is important for the integrity of the story.
We should be careful that we don’t always sit in a corner and cheerlead our own race, requesting and demanding that it gets the best cities, the best leaders, the best heroes, and so on.
The Disney route of happily ever after in the princess castle with prince charming is not the path to pursue, so try not to ask so much for it. Reflect a bit on what good story is, and how it should manifest in the game.
Outside of having one they previously occupied which came ready built, why would Forsaken bother to build another city and not just keep to outposts?
They’re not like other races. They don’t need to eat or drink or sleep. Presumebly this makes their notions of an internal economy vaunted, as the concept falls apart if there are no items you need to live to serve as the base for generating basic economic exchange.
So why on earth would forsaken go to the trouble of either building a new city, or putting themselves at risk to take one? They don’t need one. They don’t benefit from the security and prosperity of having a huge congregation of people in a space as other races do. If anything it puts them at risk because it puts them all together only for the potential gain of having concentrated military forces which you can achieve with an outpost. You don’t need a capitol city for that.
Forsaken only occupied Undercity because Sylvanas captured it and served as a convenient location to draw in more risen scourge victims due to where it was. With forsaken being risen in lower numbers now, and that not being focused in a particular location, the benefits of having a capitol fall.
It’s a bit rich to be disgruntled with forsaken being made “more living like” and then demand they get a capitol city back. living in a capitol is exactly that isn’t it? How many undead in other media routinely have a capitol city as opposed to simply occupying wherever because they don’t need comforts like food, warmth etc?
Ion interview: https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/49439-the-jailers-look-confirmed-1-legendary-limit-2020-release-and-more-zoltan-ion-hazzikostas-interview/
Twitter rant after: I think@WatcherDevhonestly knew for a while about the eye change options coming and still said it was NPCs only just to get a bit more of a laugh about it. I can say Id for sure do the same thing. Good that player agency is a priority again though.
Good
After dozen or so years you finnaly could develope a personality and identity and be more than an corpse Elf’s personal cult, scourge style
…you know, be a proper “race” (just please don’t reproduce - remeber, you guys used to be victims who hated the fact, your soul were dragged back screaming and kicking from the grave and stuffed back to your rotten corpse)
A random Borg Drone have more individuality and personality than your average Fosaken…
Not sure how that is an answer to my question. If you needed help, just say so. Arthas Menethil is the answer, by the way.
So what did the forsaken always crave, deep down?
Was it perhaps:
A home?
A place where they belong?
To live without being classified by their existance?
So Undercity, their home is gone. Unhabitable until some writer decides Jaina needs some spotlight again so she can just freeze the plague away.
A place where they belong? The horde, where they’re mistrusted after them following Sylvi?
To live without being classified? There’s a pretty cool conversation between a forsaken and an orc in Orgrimmar, where they talk about whether the forsaken is sad that Sylvi left. He answers with a question, which is kind of a rude thing to do in my opinion, whether the orc was sad when Garrosh left.
So yeah, those things “they always deep down craved” aren’t really going to happen because Mama Menethil showed up with her being all high and mighty.
Not sure what point you’re trying to make with that statement, other than “They don’t hate Mama Menethil because Papa Menethil”, to which I reply, they should.
No offense here, but are you capable of reading? If the answer is, what I expect it to be, let me follow up your “yes” with another question. If you are capable of reading, how are you so bad at interpreting things?
Am I genuinely not being obvious in my sarcasm towards you?
Is this my fault or is it just you who struggles with human conversations?
I’m sorry I’m genuinely confused here.
No, I usually just sit in the forums and call people out who say that Sylvi is evil, because she obviously isn’t evil, she’s just good from another perspective (that’s also sarcasm that I find to be quite obvious, I’ll use these brackets including a small comment in the future whenever I can’t help being sarcastic. Would that help you?), or when people type the name “Calia” or reference her in any way shape or form.
(That entire paragraph was also sarcasm, in case you didn’t notice. I put a sarcastic sentence into an entire paragraph that was sarcasm, that was incredibly eloquent from me if I daresay it (the incredibly eloquent part was also not meant serious, in case you didn’t notice))
I feel like there’s a misogynist joke to be made here. Thankfully I won’t go there because I feel like it’d be inappropriate.
Oh so Thrall is the warchief because he’s part of the council?
Would that mean that any undead in the council is automatically the leader of the forsaken?
I wonder if there’s any undead in the council. Is Calia in it? No? Oh that’s weird given how she’s the leader of the forsaken. What are you saying? There’s another undead in the council? Who is it?
(Again, I know this might surprise you, but I am actually aware which forsaken is in the council. Also this may as well surprise you, but this is just calling out your argument for being bad and not actually making an argument that Lilian is indeed the leader of the forsaken, but rather that your argument could support Lilian being the leader just as much. Also the point about “People who claim they don’t want something end up being it” also fits Lilian quite well.
So… Do you recommend forcing people to do stuff they don’t want?
What I’d like would be some sort of canon for her to be the forsaken leader, rather than a guess somebody else made and you picked up, which you are now viciously defending in the face of me creating my own point of view rather than regurgitating whatever I’ve read on wowhead, icy veins, saw in some youtube video or whatever.
So yeah, if she canonically becomes the leader of the forsaken, I’ll believe that she’s the leader of the forsaken. If you’re fine with clues and see every clue as a fact, that’s a pity because it means you’re delusional, but I feel like that’s more of an issUe than an Issme. Get it? Issue and you and issme and me? Because it’s your problem rather than mine?
Did you even check your own source?
Sorry. Unless you’ve got a time machine, that content is unavailable.
I’m sorry this is really funny to me. The quote you’ve spent looking for, because I was oh so ignorant and annoying, isn’t a quote, but a paraphrase at best?
I mean I see two statements in that entire article:
Blue-eyed Blood Elves are not planned to be character customization, just textures for NPCs.
Which says “they’re not planned” rather than “they’re not coming” ← See the lawyer english there? “They’re not planned, but plans can change and they have”
Also it’s not a quote, but a paraphrase.
as well as
Ion confirmed that Blue Eyed Blood Elves as a character customization are not planned and just from datamining. Blue Eyed Blood Elves are textures for NPCs, and the real character customizations should be available in the upcoming weeks on Alpha.
Again “not planned”. “Not planned” does not equal
It means at that point in time there were no plans for these features to be implemented.
Anyway, I spent like 30 seconds looking up the video you were looking for to find a direct quote from him, since you’ve cared to provide the name whose interview it was. Fairly easy, thanks for that!
https://youtu.be/drQ_J33I3F4?t=2749
I can confirm there are no plans for blue eyed blood elves
Again, lawyer english, typical Daddy Ion. “No plans” does not equal “not happening”
Oh no, you get me wrong, I’m not twisting everything in a way that is obviously ridiculous to justify something for the sake of having the story turn out the way I want it to.
I’m currently making ridiculous statements to be as condescending as humanly possible towards you. It’s working quite well I feel like.
It’s because you’re stating things that aren’t facts, but speculations, even if they’re as likely as 99.9%, they’re still only speculations, as facts. And that’s an incredibly dangerous thing to do on the internet. That’s how people die. As in literally, with no sarcasm here.
Don’t proclaim something is a fact as long as there is only the slightest doubt about it being a fact.
Because if you do, you’re just lying. If it turns out to be the truth in the future? Guess what, you were still lying.
I mean except for Baine and Thrall, they’re all pretty swell. Don’t like the pacifists, but they’ve been there for quite some time so replacing them might be difficult. Especially since there’s no relevant orcs or tauren left alive
See this is the first time I agree with you. Congrats
The issue with this is: You’ve pointed at very little facts thus far.
The facts you pointed at are:
“She’s in Orgrimmar”
“She’s in Orgrimmar now. Last time she was in alliance territory.”
“Early quest for Shadowlands Beta”
“Lilian states there is another”
I mean 3 facts in total (not counting the orgrimmar one twice, don’t be silly). With one being incredibly vague (Lilian) and the other two being “She’s at the place where stuff is currently happening”. I mean Valeera has played major parts in BFA including the whole Wrathion storyline. She’s also stood with the Horde leaders in the earlier iterations. She’s not the leader of the Bloodelves.
Also: The Horde leaders that are missing are:
Thrall SpoilerKidnapped by Forsworn (not the ones from Skyrim)
Baine SpoilerKidnapped by Forsworn (not the ones from Skyrim)
Lilian (technically not their leader, but their representative in the Horde council)
Ji Firepaw (Do Pandas even exist?)
Geyarah (I have no idea where to put that ’ in her name)
Talanji (probably hates Jaina? I’d hate her if I was her)
Kiro (who wants Vulperas to stand near the Horde anyway? I’m just kidding they’re alright)
cba to write the same for alliance leaders, but “the leaders of the horde” is also a fair bit incorrect, I failed to mention that during an earlier post so I’ll put it here.
And Garona has played major parts in WoW lore since always. She’s not the chieftain of the orcs either.
A character being involved in the story doesn’t make them anthing more than a story relevant character.
Sorry but those facts don’t convince me that she’s 100% for certain the next forsaken leader.
Do they convince me that there’s a chance she might become the next forsaken leader? I gotta admit, sadly they do. But a chance does not equal a fact.
So yeah, you’re just having issues with identifying the difference between a fact and a theory. At least that’s what I’m reading here.
See now that’s a flat out lie, but that’s on Icy veins, not on you. I guess it’s kind of on you because you believe icy veins without checking the source.
If you check out the youtube video in this very post, since it’s quite a large one I’ll link it again
https://youtu.be/drQ_J33I3F4?t=2749
You can cleary hear that he says
I can confirm there are no plans for blue eyed blood elves
“No plans” =/= “It won’t happen”
Yes, I know, Icy Veins wrote “it won’t happen” but that’s because Icy Veins doesn’t pay their writers enough so they don’t care to quote things properly.
So yeah, their mistake for misquoting, I guess? Or rather misparaphrasing?
And the tweet from Daddy Ion that you’ve linked only shows that it is exactly how I’m describing it. That there were no plans at the time of said interview but due to said interview the plans became a thing.
That’s the issue with lawyers. They talk carefully.
Spare me the furry opinion ok? Forsaken have more personality than several races combined, including furry foxes. Not to mention that most of the questlines involving forsaken have about them the typical black humor. For some reason you people made up this fictive lack of personality and blamed it on Sylvanas, cause blaming Sylvanas is what the cool kids do. We weren’t broken and we didn’t need a fix. But we got broken and didn’t get a fix anyway.
“Our expectations” You are the spokesperson for the race are you?
Didn’t think so. Speak for yourself, not for others.
Also, I agree with what Jito says on this, I mean, Stormwind as your capital? I know you’re divorced from reality but with thoughts like this its not even in sight.
Do forsaken even have the means to bolster their numbers anymore? Aren’t the Val’kyr Sylvanas’ pets, rather than forsaken property?
Either way their means of adding to their numbers are weaker than previous, so why would they target the biggest capitol of the alliance? They’d probably lose most of their numbers in the process assuming they could pull it off. For what? So the dregs of their people can brag about it? It’s not like Stormwind holds any significance for Lordaeron denizens and as mentioned previously Forsaken being undead means they don’t get a lot of the benefits of having a capitol living races do. Seems a big payoff for what essentially comes down to sentiment.
And i don’t really think the horde war council is going to green light sending in wider horde troops off the back off “remember that time our ex leader blighted our capitol and killed tons of your people? Yeah, so we’d like you to send more of them to capture Stormwind for us so we can hang around there for reasons”. I don’t see it happening.
The only hope for a forsaken city is if Lordaeron is cleared of blight. I just don’t see them going to the effort of rebuilding or attempting a capture as worth the payoff. The forsaken are no longer in a position to bolster their ranks with a magical finger click, they have to be careful with what they have and I can’t see the wider horde going out of their way for them given they don’t actually benefit societal living it’s not like there’s an urgent need to settle them somewhere well established else they’ll starve is it?
No, but I am. On behalf of every Forsaken player in existence, I apologize. When brain decay sets in we usually dispose of the defective individual, but sometimes one slips through the cracks and escapes into the wild.
Strongly disagree! The new models are amazing. It is not lore breaking because not every corpse resurrected is in an advanced state of decay. Playing a fresh cadaver is absolutely logical. And they look lovely
Unnecessary loss, it was just a trade off for Teldrassil.
I don’t want Stormwind. Iconic city of the Alliance, it should forever stay in the Alliance, we don’t need it, we need a proper forsaken capital.
Biggest loss so far, I agree. I really disagree with where they took the Forsaken story.
If they do that I’ll start a revolution, or just quit. It would be absolutely horrid.
Regardless of your personal preference the models without bones sticking out have been a regularly requested feature, especially as another region uses them.
It is optional. No one is making you have to play it. You can still have the bones protruding.
I will be using it myself along with the punk rock hair and purple eyes and I can’t wait!!! I love the overhaul they’ve done.
when big brain geniuses like me and you offer our great thoughts it is common for people who don’t get them to be full of disdain. but do not let it get to you. misquoting them shows how mature and reasonable you are which is sure to gain you support
Can we just paraphrase that as “Things that -I- don’t like” as it is always suspicious when someone tries to speak for a vast body of people without actually having consulted with those people and is generally therefore utterly false.
Some of them are worse, yeah, some of them are better, and some remain rubbish and make no sense in lore "Soooo, male Forsaken all walk with a hunch, female Forsaken walk straighter backed? You know that makes no biological sense I mean even if the lower abdomen has atrophied then has it escaped your attention that of those two sexes of Forsaken, only one has (Lets put it delicately) weights on their upper torso that would possibly make them hunch over, yet -they’re- the ones standing up straight?
Nah its not, its an option that allows people to actually play Undead from European legends as opposed to Hollywood Zombies, whilst still allowing people to play Hollywood Zombies if they want to. In many of the Undead myths from our countries, Undead simply looked like dead -people- which is what made them horrific to our mindset, look at the legends of Upyr and Vardalouk, of Draugr and Deathwalkers. Hollywood Zombies were the aberration, not European Zombies.
They’re not Chinese Undead. Are they hopping instead of walking? As for racial identity customisation, what do you think that looks like? They have a -lot- of racial identity customisation, They just don’t have what -you- want. So? I can’t see myself using any of the Blood Elf customisation options as they don’t appeal, personally, I can still recognise that they -got- customisation.
No Deformities? What do you think an Undead -is-? Do you think Arthas or Sylvanas especially went looking for people who had deformities to raise into undeath?
Straight back’s I’ll give you, it has never made sense that Forsaken are all crouched, that doesn’t make sense.
Lich options, how would that even work? We’re talking WoW Liches, right? Right, how would they ride a mount? What would a Lich in platemail look like? WoW Liches have a very specific look which, much like Naga (Whilst being a popular request by people) would simply not work games mechanics wise. So thats a problem.
Err…You wot? It was not teased at…
She was also the thing holding the Forsaken back as a Race, they were basically -defined- by her, which is…not great? To use a parallel that would be like saying that People of Colour are defined by Martin Luther King, both were figures who fought for the liberation of their people, but that is the whole point, Sylvanas fought for her people’s liberation, and then they seemed to turn into a cult based around her, which is an incredibly creepy situation. -Now- Forsaken seem to have the same opportunities as the other Species of Azeroth, in -actually- having their freedom finally. Including the freedom to choose their own leadership. (Oddly no other Species has this apart from Gnomes)
I don’t know about that, I do think they will dial back on the Forsaken being quite as evil as they have been, which to be honest is a -good- thing, as logically the Horde would have simply put them down by now. I think they will maintain their dark and gothic vibe, but be less cackling maniacs than they were during say, Cataclysm. Which is good. Because no one wants allies like that, they are a liability, not an asset.
No. I completely agree with you, I think that would be ridiculous. If people -want- to go for the posh dandy zombie look, they can already do so with existing transmogs in game, I’ve seen it done, and it does look good in a Baron Samedi kind of way, (Because Baron Samedi is pretty much the epitome of cool) but thats not Forsaken.
It needs to echo the revamp of Brill, something harsh, and very utilitarian.
The problem is that with the Forsaken you have the three major groupings in society, the Deathguards, the Deathstalkers and the Apothecaries.
Perhaps they could take an approach like that with the Blood Elf heritage armour which had a trousers option as well as a robes one? Something that allows the extreme austere horror of what a Deathguard is, whilst also catering to the dark satanic majesty of an Apothecary, and Deathstalkr falling somewhere in between… It is a tricky one to picture what it should look like, as I can picture what I think would look cool for a Deathguard, and what would look cool on a Deathstalker, and what would look cool on an Apothecary, but the three are so different…
I think the Belf way is the best option, the top half heavily Forsaken Themed, with the lower half having a plate/leather variant, and a caster variant.
She Calia is here to stay you are turning your back to the future!
Don’t worry you will remain able to eat fresh shrreded meat as my and your ennemies are numerous and remain the very core and soul of that race ! No one will say a word because you remain loyal the old customizations or, a more completely decayed body !
Nathanos has given up the ghost, Liiian is with lady Calia Menethil and that freak of Tyrande didn’t kill her as you excepted though she acussed her of the banshee’s doing and for that her dealth warrant is signed besides she doesn’t have any people left to rules or to make demand: she hearthed , it is her fault her people perished in an atrocious way.
Now only the banshee remain and we are not sure yet they won’t take the worse scenario and just offer her as a raid boss, redeem her, or none of that but she attain what she wanted immortality…yet in a decayed and smelling/ less well preserved body than light touched queen menethil , the miracle happened just because she wanted to kill king Terenas true heir and blood !
Not to talk abut the problem of producing new forsakens… : Let’s us fresh blood join your ranks, i just ask so little a few female, face and body well preserved a few jewel/ligh touched options … i just want to wet my beak a little,
We would be a strict minority: if you want it horde side take it , if you don’t want it allow it alliance side, go with me get on me side just once I promess complete cooperation and protection from the scarlet, my past forced compagnions and any others !
Canon wise my road was paved with victory after victory: i didn’t suffer defeat once, just a draw since your ex leader flyed.
No matter if it is two more years I will get it even if it is the last thing i manage to get from my game time,
The forsakens need to evolve and stop being aimless or killed if the give their opinions/hunted for being different and it is more than time ! Let us join, do no think … ! /extend her plate glove just a brief moment of connection…
We are not gonna let that stupid Tyrande kaldorei thing brag anymore and manage to cowardly give the killing blow to the banshee are we ?
