Accepting the fact that it does a lot less dps then the other rogue specs is it fun to play in m+ and raid? I mean does it have a rotation with more then just 3-4 skills and some utility to press during fight to heal and protect himself and help the party?
A 4 pieces, double legendary 270 IL outlaw rogue played properly can reach at least 12-14 k overall in a 15 m+ or is it condemned to tank kind of numbers?
According to the last DPS ranking outlaw is probably the best specc in sepulcher of the first one.
Although it should be noted that those that played that week were probably above average outlaw rogues. However, given the buffs and how the raid bosses are designed with a lot of cleave I think outlaw is probably in a better spot than sub rogue.
I mythic+ I don´t see why you wouldn´t try it. I don´t think it does a lot less dps either now given with the recent buff. Outlaw is capped at 5 target whereas sub rogue is capped at 8 in AOE. On 2-4 targets outlaw will probably always be better than subrogue.
Yes, outlaw rogue has pretty much the same utility as any other rogue specc, for instance.
12-14k overall should not be a problem for a 4p outlaw rogue.
I always played sub, even when everyone else were outlaw back in season 1. I barely played Season 2, but I understood that sublety was the dominant specc then. I reckon a lot of players are still playing sub rogue because of that, although outlaw should be pretty viable now.
That could not be further from the truth.
Had that been the case then every guild in the top 100 would use Outlaw instead of Sub.
Outlaw simply lacks throughput and burst (both in ST and AoE). A 10% overall dmg buff would maybe fix that, but Blizzard doesn’t wanna “cause reasons”.
Also this (which aligns with what i have personally experienced)
.wowmeta.com/shadowlands/dps-rankings-tier-list.
The buff given was 4% on specific abilities not on overall (Which would include auto-attacks) which is a big part of Outlaw’s dps. That translates to roughly 1.5% dps increase overall and 1.5% simply ain’t cutting it. Sadly the dps and dmg difference between the 2 speccs remains vast.
Outlaw is HARD-capped at 5 targets whereas Sub is SOFT-capped at 8. It’s a small but very important detail. Meaning Outlaw can only strictly hit 5 targets at all times while Sub can hit an infinite number of targets but at reduced dmg.
In higher M+ where you usually pull more than 15 targets per pull outlaw rogue literally does healer dmg. (i’m pretty sure you are aware of that very well)
Stop spreading misinformation please.
it was for the week that I linked it. Last week all three speccs were doing about the same.
He is asking for a 15 m+. I am not saying that Outlaw is top tier. What I am saying is that outlaw rogue should still be viable for mythic+ 15-20 keys at least. 12-14k dps shouldnt be a problem.
Outlaw is good in PVP if you play with a healer in 2’s cause its a very friendly spec for players who just want to play a slower game
in M+ and raiding its probably sub or assa you want to play
if you play double dps in 2’s or you wanna do 3’s i’d suggest sub or assa over outlaw simply cause your damage output is important.
Whats the point on looking on top 100 guilds where they play multi classes and always pick fotm comp?
Also it is very player depended since some players on theses guilds will stick to what their favor spec is and will probably still do more dps than 99% of us even if we pick the better spec.
The link he posted changes almost every week according to the top 98% kills which always change depend on the players and specs that is killing the bosses, which means this data dosn’t really worth much but it can show you that all specs are viable (atleast at some point).
Also the post opener wrote about 15+ keys so writing about higher keys is not really related.
So Croweley actually came to encourage the guy to play what he likes because on 15ish keys it doesnt really matter where you come and try to show that you have more knowledge where you were totally mistaken.
Top 100 guilds literally are the people who discover what’s META and then it becomes FOTM because it literally works better than other specs. You got it way backwards.
That has literally never been the case especially when they are progressing.
The absolute META will always be picked in high end guilds/teams and it will always perform better than its NON META-equivalent if same player skill is assumed.
Players have a tendency to aim higher, especially when it comes to M+. Sooner or later X,Y,Z guy will want to do a lot higher than 15s, and it’s gonna hit him like a brick to the face when he finds out his new favorite spec works badly on 20s (and get declined or kicked because of it) because blizzard simply refuses to do X,Y,Z changes (uncap the spec beyond 5 targets and ramp up the % dmg in this case)
So no i’m not trying to appear “knowledgeable”, but shedding some actual light to the situation.
By all means play whatever you want. Outlaw for 15s - 20s is fine-ish.
Higher than that, the spec sadly falls short to almost every aspect of M+ concerning dps output.
Top 100 guilds literally are the people who discover what’s META and then it becomes FOTM because it literally works better than other specs. You got it way backwards.
that is not canceling what I just said, so they figure the meta and play it. what’s your point?
That has literally never been the case especially when they are progressing.
The absolute META will always be picked in high end guilds/teams and it will always perform better than its NON META-equivalent if same player skill is assumed.
that has literally keeps happening because most raids play around almost the same comps since you need almost all classes, thats why u see JPC play his rogue and Jakbcastin play his priest, this is their favor class, other than players on core roles alot of them actually play their main class.
Players have a tendency to aim higher, especially when it comes to M+
ok and? the post opener asked about +15
all you did is try to show your knowledge and again you ended up being a doosh, thats all.
Yeah technically that’s not what you said. Most of them invent the meta thus dictate the fotm. you kinda made it sound they follow a fotm passed down by an invisible - almighty god force.
Yeah and that has literally zero relevance to what i said. You are just replying to “reply”.
You stated that some players in high end guilds will stick to what their favorite spec is even assuming this “X” spec performs way worst than “Y” spec.
That is simply untrue. Take for example Jpc, outlaw was his favorite but he was forced to roll Sub cause it performed better in 99% of occasions. (because outlaw performs like garbage). And most of the time he is salty about it. (which is understandable)
The OP asked about +15s and Croweley was providing him with slightly untrue info stating that “outlaw is in a better state than sub” which is simply untrue.
All i did was reply to Croweley by extrapolating on OP’s original post.
The OP might want to do +15s and stay there or he might want to go way beyond that.
Whatever the case Sub is way more viable and welcomed than Outlaw. He should know that beforehand.
Now if all that appear to you as “trying to show knowledgeable”(Although the same could be argued for you) that’s your issue.
sorry i responded without your permission, i guess i should have contacted you via e-mail beforehand.
That’s all.
PS: we are also kinda off topic
Uhm what? I said “According to the last DPS ranking outlaw is probably the best specc in sepulcher of the first one.” I was clearly referring to the raid only and in tangency with that weeks DPS ranking. I even added a disclaimer below "Although it should be noted that those that played that week were probably above average outlaw rogues. ".
And would you look at this, it appears to still be true that oulaw is seemingly the best specc in sepulcher of the first ones:
Disclaimer: looking at overall, assassination is slightly ahead on boss dmg.
And regarding M+ I never said that outlaw was better than subrogue, quite the opposite actually.
My point with the answer was that if he wants to play Outlaw, then he should. Nothing should stop him from even doing 20 keys. Given that he asked for 15+ I did not think of him going much further than 20ish keys. With this mind it is clearly viable as you yourself have proven Unholyvamp.
This is all I wanted to say, because you shouldn´t give up on a specc that you like. Especially when the specc really isn´t that bad.
Anyway you should make a separate post or something if you wanna complain about the issues with outlaw, because you clearly have a lot of input.
Wholeheartedly agree, sorry if i was misunderstood
You are absolutely right.
Probably sidetracking from OP’s topic.
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