Outlaw needs some help please devs!

[Vurai-kazzak]

Ok a few things to consider, is it possible to give Blade Flurry a soft cap using the ‘Damage reduced beyond 8 targets’ function please? It would be nice to be able to slightly contribute in large pulls which are very common and fun in the dungeons this tier. Outlaw rogues don’t do large bursts so having a soft cap wouldn’t make us OP by any standards in the big pulls, but give us the ability to not do damage closer to the tank thats all

BF is also behaving weirdly in some situations, I’ve noticed it not correctly hitting targets right next to me if they are slightly above or below me in elevation. This is especially noticeable in Ara Kara dungeon, and the City of Threads (on the hills, stairs, or slightly elevated places), and I think many Outlaw rogues could agree with this as its very obvious when this is occurring.

Secondly, please take a look at ‘Killing Spree’ if possible, I’ve tried to do raid content with the hero tree (zero tree?) Trickster, and I can promise you that Killing Spree is legit completely suicidal, griefing, and stupid to use for any form of serious content, ranging from Mythic Ovinax or any mythic raid boss for starters, and even m+ dungeons, so I guess Trickster is only really viable in PVP and World content (maybe delves LOL). Just playing in M+ to hurt my mental to just see how it plays, I’ve successfully griefed other players by blowing them up on the 3rd boss in Grim Batol (was funny, but for the randoms they seemed very confused, upset and angry, and didn’t even notice that it was Killing Spree that was the culprit, on top of taking plenty of extra damage due to uncontrollably jumping into frontals, puddles, cleaves, lava every single time I press it). I can see the use for Trickster Hero Tree as Outlaw as the ultimate Trickster Troll Memer Key Depleter zero tree, and if this is the intention from the get go I’m all for it, I’ll be down for ruining people’s day with Killing Spree and have a great laugh whenever they have no clue whats going on or whats killing them or whats killing me.

The ability itself just needs an update, remove its current monke functionality and give it something cool, or even simple but powerful, worthy of a big finisher status, so its more in line with the safety and strength of Secret Techniques (the mirror big finisher shared in the trickster tree between Outlaw and Sub), and doesn’t cause us to commit suicide in any content as it currently does. I’m sure you have data to reflect this and I have confidence that you’ll see barely anyone plays Trickster in raids or m+ and this is probably down to how troll Killing Spree is.

In the upcoming 11.05 changes for Outlaw, I really think Supercharger needs a bit of a rethink, binding it to RTB doesn’t seem very smart, and I think it has adverse interactions with how we play Outlaw, especially for KIR and even for HO as well. We don’t want to be spamming RTB really as we can accidentally remove good buffs or if we have 4-6 buffs as KIR, we won’t be pressing RTB often to take advantage of Supercharger, as we can currently only press RTB once again after locking in our RTB buffs with KIR ability.
Echoing Reprimand was a really fun ability that gave us more interesting interactions to play with so I think removing this ability was a mistake to begin with.

I think it should be attached to something else thats not RTB, but my suggestion would be Vanish perhaps, but it could also just be the case that this talent simply doesn’t synergise well with Outlaw anymore in its new iteration, so maybe we just have to accept that and understand its a dead node for Outlaw for the foreseeable future and a talent that was designed for Sub and Assass mainly.

Just did another key in Grim Batol: For some reason when playing Outlaw Trickster, I seemed to be permanently stunned during the last boss whenever I pressed Killing Spree, is that a feature too? Some kind of tentacle debuff stunning me, really confused why pressing Killing Spree would stun me, I thought it should do big damage. Erudax doesn’t like Killing Spree

[Takami-draenor]

Completely agree with everything mentioned in this post. Would like to further emphasize the need for changes to supercharger from a gameplay perspective and for the long-term class design.

[Murakage-tarren-mill]

@Vurai-kazzak

For some reason when playing Outlaw Trickster

The one time I tried Trickster in GB I was just bouncing into tentacles constantly.
Or flying off the boat in Dawnbreaker.
Or bouncing into Bananas in siege.

I really don’t understand why the hitbox has to move with the character. I’m fairly certain there shouldn’t be any reason why the character hitbox should not stay locked behind the mob while the character mesh’s animation extends to appear outside of the physical hitbox. Is this genuinely an engine limitation or just devs not being very imaginative and thinking outside of the box? (literally)

[Halftooth-bronze-dragonflight]

If blade flurry remains capped it needs to flurry way more damage so we’re actually good on lower target counts. These days specs like frost dk and ret pally have big damage so often that they’re doing more damage on a pack of 8 mobs than outlaw can.

I really don’t understand the current design of capping a spec, but then not doing more damage to compensate.

Agree with everything else, killing spree / trickster are unusable in any sort of non-trivial content. Even can get you killed in delves.

I was hoping for a lot more rogue changes in the .5 patch but it looks like time has run out again. Very disappointed. Just some band-aid fixes (some of them are nice I will admit) thrown together in the hope of patching it up to be somewhat playable.

[Vurai-kazzak]

To add some further thoughts to this:

In 11.05, the following change is going to be very frustrating and counter intuitive to play with:

’ * Thistle Tea now automatically drinks when Energy falls below 30 (was 50).’

We don’t want this to happen at all because:

If we are low on energy, but Adrenaline Rush is close to falling off or its about to come off CD, but we are purposely just pressing builder on CD anyways while being low on energy, we would take advantage of the energy given by Adrenaline Rush when its fallen off or we reuse AR and get back full energy as a result.

By having Thistle Tea auto proc when below 30 energy in this circumstance will be a huge waste of energy. It might seem niche but for me this happens a lot already on retail in M+ or raids, and I’m aware enough to hold off pressing TEA when very low on energy just because I know AR is soon dropping off/or will be used again while its still up.

Please change Thistle Tea into a choice node, where you have two options, the lazy idle version that auto procs, and the version that gives us full control over its usage (and perhaps add a little extra to it as a reward for playing with effort?).

Please also take a look at the Fatebound Capstone Lucky Coin:
Its not working correctly, and sometimes does not proc when hitting 7+ coins in a row, its really frustrating not getting the 7% agi buff, even when reaching 7+ coins and this is really jarring to play with as our damage depends on these things actually functioning as intended, rather than all these mystery cluedo bugs we have to play around.