I’ll try to keep this simple: when should you use a finisher at 4 combo points ?
I Know that if you are at 4 CP and you have a free pistolshot, you shouldn’t use it. But should you do your finisher at 4 CP (20% chance to not get the free finisher CP, but you don’t waste a potential opportunity proc on the sinister strike used to get to 5 CP), or use sinister strike to reach 5 CP, then finisher, then use the proc ?
Also, even regular SS has a small chance to hit twice, giving a second CP. Because of this, should you always use finishers at 4 CP? Or is the fact you would drop from 100% to 80% free cp on finisher make it not worth it ?
Basically: is there ever a situation when you would use a 4 CP finishing move instead of 5 ?
Can’t seem to find clear answer even on the different beginner guides from icy veins, wowhead etc…
Edit: finally looked at the %s: sinister strike has a 35% chance to hit twice + proc pistol shot.
So, at 4 CP with no proc, using SS is a 35% chance to ‘waste’ a cb, however compensated by adding 20% chance to get that CP from the full finisher, so it need out at a 15% chance to waste a CP (use it and you have 35% chance to waste, don’t use it and you have 20% chance to waste.) => on principle it would seem better then to use the finisher at 4 CP from a purely combo point efficiency pov. But does the loss of damage / energy that results in using 4 CP finisher over 5 CP finisher compensate for that or not ?
finishing at 4/5CP = 13% chance of NOT recuperating a free cp (65% of Ss not procing x 20% of finisher not granting cp), 59% chance of getting a free CP, and 28% chance of getting 2 free cp.
Finishing at 5/5: 35% chance of wasting a cp, 100% chance of a free cp (from full finisher)
More damage / energy at 5 CP than at 4 CP.
Too lazy right now to do same check for what to do at 4 CP WITH a proc up…
It’s about combo points, if you have 4 already and there is ability which gives 2 then 1 will be wasted.
Try deeper stratagem and you will never waste combo points.
I can tell you that i as assasination i’m mostly using finishers at 4 combo points because of high crit my single mutilate gives me 4 and if there is no garrote to refresh and add that 1 point i’m envenoming all day at 4, it’s not real issue, just some rng, ofc some more rng to outlaw will hurt more than some rng to consistant spec like assasination.
Looking into detail:
It comes down to, at 4 CP, using Finisher and then sinister strike (F->SS) versus using sinister strike into finisher (for 5 CP finisher).
Energy use is same in both cases.
F into Ss:
13% chance to have 1 Cp (just from the Ss)
58% chance to have 2 CP (Ss + one free)
28% chance to have 3 CP (Ss + 2 free)
value of a Ss and a 4/5 point finisher
Ss into F:
100% chance to have 1 Cp
value of a Ss and a full 5 point finisher
What’s best ? Does the extra damage you gain with that last combo point into your finisher make up for the % chances of gaining 1 or 2 extra combo points ?
I’m thinking yes ? Has any extensive testing been done ? (for example is 4/5 better for when rolling bones, but 5/5 better for the dmg finisher ?)
Given how close it is, I’m gonna go ahead and say that if 4/5 WITH a pistol shot proc up, the added loss of value with the 35% chance to miss out on a proc means that 4/5 beats 5/5 and holding that proc til after finisher…
There’s no grand solution I’m afraid.
Like has been said above, Assass has a more clear cut solution as a minimum the main CP stacker grants 2, so Assass players will always use a finisher 1 under max unless they’re refreshing a basic garrote.
Even if you were to spec into Deeper Stratagem, the dilemma has a CP added and goes from 4 or 5, to 5 or 6.
Procs matter a lot in the decision, but I more often than not would Finish at 4 CP. There’s just too many procs that grant you extra or you need to react to. There’s obviously quiet moments where you’d just go for an extra SS straight into a finisher, but mostly I think you’re fine finishing on 4 CPs.
Another way of looking at it:
Given that energy situation is the same at the end (only 2 abilities used, only difference is order): one CP is worth 1/5 points. A full 5 CP finisher is worth 1 point. A 4/5 finisher is worth… 4/5.
This leads to:
SS INTO FINISHER:
100%: 1,2 value (5/5 finish + 1/5 from the final cp)
Finisher INTO SS:
13%: 1 value (4/5 finish + 1/5 CP)
58%: 1,2 value (4/5 finish + 2/5 CP)
28%: 1,4 value (4/5 finish + 3/5 CP)
(assuming finisher damage grows linearly, not sure if it’s the case).
So taking it all into account:
Finishing before Ss has a value of 1,23
Finishing after Ss has a value of 1,20
So you get a tiny increase in value going for 4/5 over 5/5, but barely. (although my method may be totally off…)
Seems like 4/5 wins out, but not by a huge amount. Although in longer fights the extra combo points generated (at the cost of more frequent, less strong finishers) will contribute to more cd reduction through restless blades…
The 0.026 difference is equal to 2,6% of a full service finisher. So in theory if you do 4/5 finishers, every 38.5 ‘rotations’ (finisher + Ss) you gain the equivalent value of one extra full finisher.
Given that on top of that pistol shot procs go completely around this (and you’ll have it procced at 4/5 about 30% of the time), in the end unless the fight lasts long enough for like 50 full rotations, there basically won’t be any difference between 4/5 vs 5/5
Is there any add-on / site that let’s you test rotations (over like 1k rotations to eliminate crit variance)
Edit: doing same check for value at 4/5 WITH an existing pistol proc available: doing 4/5 into free pistol shot into Ss vs doing Ss into finisher into free pistolshot:
4/5 has an increased value of 0,17 (17% of a full finisher, vs the 2,6% increased value without proc up at 4/5)