I agree Mythic+ is too easy for gearing up. I lost 1 of my 3 Vision keys for the week today because of a single minor mistake (engaged a target without noticing, meaning I couldn’t use orb), and was thinking how much easer the M+ runners have it.
In my opinion, Mythic+ should be changed so it’s harder to get lots of great gear very early in a Season:
If you die, you’re kicked from the instance.
If you fail the timer you get no gear.
Remove the weekly chest.
Limit the number of slots that gear can drop for.
You can pick your key level BUT it’s consumed on use and you only get a few a week.
I’m not talking specifically about M+ rather I’m talking that we as players get way too geared for the content we do.
Take the alliance quest for example, it gives a 445 ilvl item afaik, imagine giving a freshly dinged player a 445 ilvl item out of the blue? that’s like 120 ilvl increase or something, basically skipping normal, heroic and mythic dungeons alongside lfr raid in quality.
You say it’s one item, but then remember you have warfronts, weekly pvp, world quest cache and many others that let you entirely skip the process.
Once done with these powerups for little effort, players jump right into +7 or 10s without even having experienced the dungeons!
Or Take me for example, I love M+, highest I’ve done was a KR +20 in s2 and for this season a +19, these are arguably not as hard as mythic raiding, yet doing them I have 479 ilvl.
I don’t care about mythic, only joined for fun with Zen Horde, yet I vastly out gear mythic raiding to the point where I can legitimately ignore tactics.
My point is that this is unhealthy and devalues content, why design an ability if no one is gonna interact with it?
I’m fine with brute forcing when you’ve actually overcome the challenge and learned it, but I definitely don’t like brute forcing to overcome if you get what I mean.
Yeah, I see what you’re saying. But I think what I say is valid too - it’s too easy to gear up above 460+ by spamming higher keys. For casuals, getting above 460 is a very long process, even with Visions. I’m only 463 now after 3 months. But an M+ just needs to be running dungeons at M+ 10 for a weekly 465.
The problem with removing / throttling access to the lower bracket of gear (445 - 460) is Warmode. I love Warmode but am a solo player at heart and don’t like running much proper co-op content. Without those easy to get 445s I could not compete in open-world PvP. M+ runners would quickly gear up over 460+ and smoosh me as I’d be stuck at 430. Despite what some players say, scaling does not make up a 30+ ilvl difference in open-world PvP (that’s a ltp problem).
You could say that casuals like me should just do the group content stuff… which is a valid opinion, but not one which would help WoW in the long term. Players like me help keep the game financially viable in an era where there is a lot of competition from many other excellent and fun MMOs.
Looking at the loot rewards from Dungeons and Raids, I’d suggest that the bottom tiers of Dungeons are there for players who want to gear up quickly when they ding 120 or when the patch drops. There’s your problem, imho and the fix is to cut M+ 1 to M+6 from the game completely and just go from M0 to M7 in difficulty level. Players can then gear up in open-world PvE / PvP and in Normal raid for a few weeks then start on M+.
Edit: Going back to the Visions comparisons, the gap in difficulty per extra mask is significantly greater than the gap in difficulty per extra M+ level. Each extra mask is +25 damage and HP from mobs / elites AND extra negative mechanic, but in M+ it’s only +12.5 modifier per level and an extra mechanic every 3 levels (4, 7 and 10). I think there’s an opportunity to reduce M+ levels. 20+ levels as it is now is too many, surely? Just cut the bottom rungs of M+ and halve the M+ rungs thereafter. Turn M+ 7 to M+ 22 into M+ 1 to M+ 8 giving 450 / 455 at the new M+ 1 increasing gradually to 470 / 475 at the new M+ 8. Have an extra 25% at each level and extra affix at the new 2, 4 ,6 and pop an extra one in at 8.
Maybe also treat dungeons like raids:
Normal becomes lfr
Heroic becomes Normal
Mythic 0 becomes Heroic
M+ 3 becomes Mythic 0
M+7 becomes M+ 1
or you could have find 2-3 people for your weekly vision so that your 1 mistake doesnt mean failed instance. in mythic + you 4 others people covering for your little f…ck ups which you most likely dont even notive anymore but hey lets pretend that its not.
But what is meaning of gearign if not making things easier? Why you go to get “Mighty Sword of Epic Slayers +30” if this sword will do this same amount of damage as standard “Iron Sword”?
well thats because you are assuming that people indeed jump straight into mythic + 9 or hc raids - which is simply not true in case of new players who are to scared of their own mistakes to do it in first place
its only possible in case of seasoned players and it has always been like this - how is it any differetnt then guild carrying fresh geared alts through hc ?
but i know that you are talking about - you are talking about people who indeed jump straight into 9s and 12 - those people are in majority not new players - but seasoned players with lower spectrum of skills but enormous egos - those are the people who go in there f…ck up - blame others and leave to cover their own f…ck ups. and you think that those are new players which is simply not true
i will tell you the truth
you are angry at yourself - that you have acquired so much skills over the years of playing wow that 99 % of game is to easy for you
but games should be never tailored towards people like you
its time to admit "yes im that good " and chill out - instead chasing invisible dragon that you will never catch. game will never give you the feeling of satisfaction you are looking for because its only game - you will never transfer your achievements in there irl and you will never be fully satisfied.
And yes I make minor f-ups all the time in Visions, but can recover from them most times. Except 5 mask run, which needs more practice. Instanced content like this is new for me and I haven’t quite got the hang of when to go quick and when to go slow, when to be super-careful and when to pull everything and nuke them down.
I think that’s a good point. I’ve got there with WRC Rally type games, which I played A LOT for several years on PS1 and XBox. I don’t bother with them these days as they’re zero challenge to me, which is a real shame because they’re my all-time favourite genre.
heh i had the same with might and magic games way back many years ago - spend so many hundreds of hours playing 6-8 i remember especially in 8 finding a way how to easily get 3 level 50 chars as soon as you were out of tutorial isle with rest of your chars being 7 or 8 effectively completly breaking the game yes you died like milion times in the process but resoults were there
either way my point is we have people who have been playing this game for 16 years - game should never be tailored for people like that
i remember especially in 8 finding a way how to easily get 3 level 50 chars as soon as you were out of tutorial isle with rest of your chars being 7 or 8 effectively completly breaking the game 
yes you died like milion times in the process but resoults were there