Paladin - Covenant Class abilities feedback

Hello,

I’ve made the following thread on the Shadowlands Beta General Discussion forum as feedback for the Covenant Class abilities (their specific conduits too) for Paladins: https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/paladin-covenant-class-abilities-feedback/175453

I’ll list the feedback provided here, but if you feel that you’re in agreement or have feedback to offer as well with the proposed changes then please head over there and leave your feedback so that Blizzard has a chance to notice it.
I’m sure the next pass is going to include paladins as well, so let’s give them something to think about if we can.
Even the smallest feedback has a chance to be noticed if it stays on top, so any “bumps” are only in favor of us.

Looking over the Covenant Class abilities for paladins they seem generally underwhelming or disruptive to use and seemingly unbalanced.

As such here are the considered changes for them:

Kyrian - https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spell=304971/divine-toll

Divine Toll Kyrian - 15% of base mana 30 yd range - Instant 1 min cooldown
Requires Paladin
Instantly cast Holy Shock, Avenger’s Shield, or Judgment on up to 5 targets within 30 yds (based on your current specialization).

TO

Divine Toll Kyrian - 15% of base mana 30 yd range - Instant 1 min cooldown
Requires Paladin
Instantly cast Holy Shock, Avenger’s Shield, or Judgment on up to 5 targets within 30 yds (based on your current specialization).
The cooldown and cost are reduced by 12 seconds and 3% mana respectively for each target hit less than the maximum.

Explanation - The ability feels good to use in aoe, but is pretty abysmal in ST, as such the best way to balance it is with a reduced cd/mana cost for each target hit. The proportions are equal to what it would be if it hit all. This way the ability feels good to use at any number of targets.

Necrolord - https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spell=328204/vanquishers-hammer

Vanquisher’s Hammer Necrolord - 1 Holy Power 30 yd range -Instant cast 30 sec cooldown
Requires Paladin
Throws a hammer at your target dealing (112% of Spell power) Shadow damage, and empowering your next
Retribution
Templar’s Verdict to automatically trigger Divine Storm
Holy
Word of Glory to automatically trigger Light of Dawn
Protection , Initial
Word of Glory to automatically trigger Shield of the Righteous

TO

Vanquisher’s Hammer Necrolord - Generates 1 Holy Power 30 yd range -Instant cast 30 sec cooldown
Requires Paladin
Throws a hammer at your target dealing (112% of Spell power) Shadow damage, and empowering your next
Retribution
Templar’s Verdict or Divine Storm to automatically trigger another Templar’s Verdict or Divine Storm respectively
Holy
Word of Glory or Light of Dawn to automatically trigger another Word of Glory or Light of Dawn respectively
Protection , Initial
Word of Glory or Shield of the Righteous to automatically trigger another Word of Glory or Shield of the Righteous respectively

Explanation - The way this currently acts as a spender disrupts the rotation and starves us more of Holy Power, making it a generator is going to increase the fluidity of the rotation and make the ability feel good to use. Also having to use 1 ST ability to trigger an aoe feels counterproductive when trying to aoe, as such it’s a lot better to have a ST spell trigger another ST spell or an AOE spell trigger another AOE spell.

Night Fae - https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spell=328278/blessing-of-the-seasons

Blessing of the Seasons Night Fae - 5% of base mana 40 yd range - Instant 45 sec cooldown
Requires Paladin
Blessing of Spring
Bless an ally for 30 sec, increasing their healing done by 10% and healing received by 20%.
Blessing of Summer
Bless an ally for 30 sec, causing their attacks to have a 40% chance to deal 30% additional damage as Holy.
Bless an ally for 30 sec, causing their cooldowns to recover 50% faster.
Blessing of Winter
Bless an ally for 30 sec. Their attacks deal [5 / 100 * max(Attack power, Spell power) * (1 + Versatility)] Frost damage and reduce enemies’ movement speed by 3% and attack speed by 2%, stacking 10 times.
Blessing of the Seasons: Turns to the next season after use.

TO

Blessing of the Seasons Night Fae - 5% of base mana - Instant cast 1 minute cooldown
Requires Paladin
Retribution
Bless yourself with Blessing of Summer for 30 seconds causing your attacks to have a 50% chance to deal 30% additional damage as Holy.
Holy
Bless yourself with Blessing of Spring for 30 seconds increasing your healing done by 15% and healing received by 15%.
Protection
Bless yourself with Blessing of Winter for 30 seconds causing your attacks deal 5% of Attack Power as Frost damage and reduce enemies’ movement speed by 3% and attack speed by 3%, stacking 10 times.

Explanation - The current Blessing of Seasons feels bad to use, it’s high maintenance and eventually(as a dps) you may be forced to provide the DPS buffs to other players, this is bad due to increasing the damage any other class does far beyond what they are designed to do and i don’t think many paladins want to be buff bots for other classes like in classic. Also each blessing is tailored to be useful to their type of spec and actually feels like a gain, like a cooldown.

Venthyr - https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spell=316958/ashen-hallow

Ashen Hallow Venthyr - 20% of base mana 30 yd range 1.5 sec cast 4 min cooldown
Requires Paladin
Hallow the target area for 30 sec. Every 2 sec, an enemy in the area suffers (100% of Spell power) Shadow damage, and an ally in the area is healed for (125% of Spell power).
Within the Hallow, you may use Hammer of Wrath on any target.

TO

Ashen Hallow Venthyr - 5% of base mana 30 yd range Instant cast 1 min cooldown
Requires Paladin
Hallow the target enemy for 10 sec, creating a hallowed zone around it. Every 2 sec, the target takes 100% of Attack Power or Spell power damage, enemies in the area suffer 50% of that damage as Shadow damage and the lowest health ally in the area siphons the health lost by the enemies, if no allies are in the zone then the paladin receives the healing. If the targeted enemy dies, the effect jumps to a random enemy in the area resetting its duration.

Explanation - The current Ashen Hollow feels bad and awkward to use due to its cast time, cooldown and the way it looks like an AOE but does ST damage, as such the changes made to it make it instant cast so that it’s usable on the fly, lowered cooldown makes it more a part of the kit and it’s an actual AOE now, followed with the targeting making it mobile where the enemy is as well as making it have a vampiric siphon-like effect for its healing portion.

Currently the following conduits(max rank) exist and some modifications are necessary to make them complement the abilities better or for the paladin to better profit from them:

Kyrian - https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spell=340218/ringing-clarity

Ringing Clarity
Kyrian Toll has a 60.0% chance to cast twice on any given target.

TO

Ringing Clarity
Kyrian Toll has a 60.0% chance to cast twice on any given target after 3 seconds.

Explanation - This is so that the player can benefit from any holy power(or additional bonuses) gained and actually have a chance to use it as to not overcap on Holy Power.

Necrolord - https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spell=340192/righteous-might

Righteous Might
Vanquisher’s Hammer deals 250% more damage and heals you for the damage done.
No change, this seems fine.

Night Fae - https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spell=340185/the-long-summer

The Long Summer
Blessing of Summer lasts 60% longer.

TO

Autumn is here
When casting the Blessing of the Seasons also cast Blessing of Autumn
Bless yourself with Blessing of Autumn for 30 seconds increasing haste by 10%

Explanation - As such we have 3 of the seasons for each spec and the conduit can give the 4th, i didn’t add 50% cooldown reduction as it’s obvious that this effect is too powerful, but more than that, it can de-sync your trinket usage since that doesn’t get reduced. Also haste is useful for all 3 specs.

Venthyr - https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spell=340212/hallowed-discernment

Hallowed Discernment
Ashen Hallow strikes the lowest health ally and enemy within it for 25% of its effect.

TO

Hallowed Discernment
Ashen Hallow strikes the targeted enemy and the paladin which casted it receive an additional 25% of its effect.

Explanation - This makes it a ST increase and always has a siphon effect for the caster.

I think this would make the abilities more streamlined with the paladin kit and would make the rotation better, their utility more in-line with their theme for the paladin/covenant. Also they are more balanced between them and the different types of content as opposed to their current iterations.

As normal, the numbers could be tuned, but the functionality/utility is the one that counts. As such, please take into consideration this bit of feedback when developing them further.

I don’t think that Divine Toll needs to change, it doesnt have to be perfect for every situation. I will go Kyrian its my favourite faction out of the four and I would love if it worked this way but I think it would bring it to far ahead of the other choices and I feel that it should be a choice of faction not a forced one due to an ability being the best in every situation.

When it comes to Ashen Hallow I think the ability on its own is fine I just think it needs a CD reduction. Venthyr also comes with the most useful of the Signature abilities aswell which should be taken into consideration aswell.

When it comes to Vanquisher’s Hammer I really like your suggestion would make the ability alot better and more controlable. I think in its current form its really clunky and highly overrated. People talk about 15% higher uptime for Prot on Sotr for example what they seem too forget is that the ability cost 1 HP and in the global you use it you could possibly have used an generator instead. So best case its a 1 HP Sotr which would mean 10% higher uptime not 15% and worst case 2 HP sotr which would just be a 5% uptime. For Holy its even worse, in many cases you don’t really get much from that LoD, wouldnt wanna waste a global to get a free LoD in most situations.

When it comes to the Blessing of the Seasons I acutally love the latest version of it I think it was crap from start but they’ve actually made it into a pretty good ability now and it suits the Paladin class fantasy well. This might just be one of the best designed class abilities in the expansion its fun its fluid. Not to mention that the faction got a pretty good Signature ability aswell. Extra movement is always welcome. What they could do to make it more appealing to Paladins is make it generate 1-2 HP so you get something about of it.

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I know what you mean by having it perfect for each situation but that is exactly what the Blessing of the Seasons one is, that’s why it’s touted to be the best one, because the others are lacking. As such i think the others need to be more well rounded like Blessing of the Seasons is, so that they are actually competitive.
Right now the Divine Toll ability feels like an ability that is good on trash, but just a Judgement/etc per minute for ST, this makes it weak.

The thing about Ashen Hollow is that it’s a ground looking aoe, but does ST. The animation looks solid, but just got to make the ability seem worthwhile to use. Especially since it’s a random ST and immobile now. So changing it to have some aoe would be ideal to make it up to par with BotS, as well as targeted on an enemy.

Yeah, Vanquishers hammer makes more sense to be a generator or actually have it enhance our ST or AOE finishers, depending on use.

I agree that BotS has a better iteration now, but it’s still plagued by the following:

  • The ability to buff other classes’s dps for example instead of buffing our own only, will make it seem like other classes are OP and we are UP. For example:
    Our class does 10k dps with our covenant ability and 9k without, another class does 10k dps with their covenant ability. If we use it on us we’re good, if we end up using it on another class we’re going to buff them farther ahead, causing possible balancing issues with buffs/nerfs. This is why buffing at your expense is not occurring in the game anymore. And truth be told, i’m not happy on using an ability i actively chose, to end up using it on others to my detriment.
  • Balancing issues like stated above, will happen because the ability has to have some power in it, if Blizzard decides that it’s too much, it might get nerfed into uselessness.
  • Cheese strats will occur using the autumn part. 30 seconds of 50% cd reduction is simply too good. This will get nerfed, it’s just a matter of when.
  • In the end, this is will most likely end up being nerfed too much, i’m 90% sure it will, as such i’d rather it be changed to a personal cooldown with the seasons flavor it has now, except that each spec has a season and we have the 4th one through the conduit (which is now a haste buff).

Hope that clears up a bit the intent behind the changes proposed.

In the end, we’ll just have to wait and see what Blizzard decides to do with the class, paladins can’t seem to get behind an idea and push it forward like priests did with void form. xD

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