Paladin Runes Phase 3 - Retribution

It’s working for sure you are right in that, but Sheath of light is crutch because we can’t itemize for so, because of the reasons I mentioned earlier.

Again it’s working, but ds is now mostly useless, also command is mostly useless. We are pigeon holed into a single cookie cutter build.
The stated purpose of runes was to have multiple choices, multiple builds. Ret and prot is locked into one build. Prot is even worse, because if you switch out exo for int, you simply can’t hold threat.

I might not been clear at first post: I like to play ret, it’s fun both PvE and PvP. I even like the som build, it feels like a classic spec. But because bad design choices we don’t have the rune system the same way as other classes. You have to pick cs, som, exo, sheath, aow. If you don’t you loosing 20-50% of your damage. While shaman has the ability to take defensive, utility runes and still out damage palas.

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The problem Ret has going into phase 3 is no Runes synergise or increase our raw damage or scaling.

Wrath is decent when you use a fast weapon like ACP because you Crit roughly x2-x4 more often with than compared to a slow weapon. You get so much more value out of Art of War and SoM for this reason if you’re attacking fast. Exorcism out damages my Melee damage and is my Top DPS ability in Gnomergan because of this.

When you look at the Wrath Rune its decent with fast weapons as you use more spells the faster your weapon is. Soon as you use a slower weapon you get less Crits way less often and Wrath becomes a lot weaker. Its not a bad Rune but its pretty Mid in levels of power compared to what the other Runes classes got. Shaman whos miles ahead kf us got a better version of our best Rune this phase.

Bracers are actually a meme because if you use a fast weapon my Exorcism on average never went above a 3s cooldown and it would Proc often enough I wouldn’t have the GCD time to cast anything else was holding Crusader Strike at times for over 10s at times on the rotation. So bracers have 0 value and are a DPS negative Rune as casting any abilities is a dps loss single target. The same issue goes for HoW Rune, its dps Negative in PvE.

They probably added the wrist Rune because they don’t want us to use a fast weapon and use a slower one. So since we’ll be attack less, we will Crit less and reach the 8s Cooldown so the bracers have more value.

The problem is if we are attacking slower SoM, Exorcism, Sheath of Light Rune and our new Rune Wrath lose value and damage compared to just using a fast weapon like ACP. This is because if we are using a fast weapon, spells suddenly now become our most used ability amd we use one almost on every GCD and this scales well with our entire Rune kit and especially Wrath as we will be casting on average x2 the Exorcisms compared to a slow weapon.

Now if we use a slow weapon we Crit less often, we get 1/2 the casts of Exorcism, so less spells to scale with our Rune kit and will do slightly more damage on Auto attacks and Crusader Strike. We now get some value out of the bracer because of we don’t Crit every 2 autos Exorcism will come off cooldown but it doesnt change the fact we will be casting 1/2 the spells compared to a fast weapon. This is a massive dps loss because Sheath, Wrath and fast Weapons all synergise well with fast weapkns. As of now, slow weapons only synergise well with Crusader Strike and Divine Storm which is a tiny DPS increment compared to SoL and Exorcist spam. This means equiping a strong slow weapon is a damage loss compared toany fast weapon like ACP.

ACP sims more dps than the Legendary Weapon Sulfuras for Rets to give you an example of how poorly our kit works with Slow Weapons.

So there we have it. We get completely screwed in the new raid because theres no fast weapons. A level 40 weapon Sims better than basically every weapon in ST. We will be lower on the DPS because we will be using a 40 weapon in ST and if you use a level 50 slow weapon your dps will be even lower. No wrist Rune synergises with us Ret and Wrath is only good on fast weapons like ACP that boosts the value of using a weapon like ACP more.

This is the reason why we are gonna be a bottom tier dps. I don’t think you understand once we get to the raid how badly Ret will fall off. The person designing Ret has completely messed us up this phase, exactly like last phase.

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Yeah but don’t you think that every class has the same issue ? At some point in PvE at least, one spec will ditch more damage than the others and so we will have to play that if we want to be opti.
Even though I reckon we may be able able to choose between ret and shock as dps for p3. The gears should give enough sp to go infusion of light rather than sheath of light and we have a fast 1H from STV event.
In PvP we may be able to go either deep ret, reckoning prot of shockadin holy, it’s quite a lot of choice. Now I get that for now in pvp we don’t get the chance to use sacred shield or avenger’s shield/rebuke/tremor. It’s the one thing I’d like to see for p3, make exorcism baseline so we can have some choice there.

well for the rune reducing the cd of exorcism have you even though it wasn’t made to be use with art of war ? the way I’ve seen it is infact to be paired with “guarded by the light”.

with this combo the SoC/divine storm build can get rid of it’s biggest problem : mana efficiency while being able to use costy spell such as exrocism (remember that it was alsmost 200 mana just for the rank 3 before the buff of art of war) divine storm and soon consecration

So it could come back but sims has to be made first (as of now I can’t find a way to sim ret pal dps with the runes of p3) and even without it I actually came up with a 976dps as a result compared to 1006 with the SoM build (still without head and bracers runes) so not that big of a difference

and let’s not forget that we have no confirmation as of those runesare effectively coming as is or slightly modified so wait and see

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They were always lazy and bad at designing Ret paladin so these datamined runes will be exactly the ones we’ll get. Like we did at P2. Hope that “Shockadin” build they force us to play made it worth destroying already broken Ret.

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This is the issue and why our class doesn’t get buffed. It really doesn’t feel good being so reliant one 1 weapon. It’s no doubt that Automatic Crowd Pummeler will be BiS still next phase. We really need better scaling with Spell power or more interesting melee focused runes. P2 was Shockadin focused and it seems P3 will be as well.

Our damage is fine, even not using SoM (when you’re full BiS when you’re not it isn’t). Our utility is mediocre and simply anyone will take a hunter for their damage and 10% Buff, Feral for their wildstrike, boomie for their spell crit.

We can assume more room will allow more class choice but we are in desperate need for something that gives an advantage when using slower weapons. For example buffing proc chance on slower weapons, Scaling holy damage for slower weapons better, increasing crit chance for slower weapons. I love the RNG nature of paladin but dps for some reason is so competitive it’s hard just being a utility class, sorry for repeating but our utility is currently 3rd class compared to anyone else.

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Blizz logic:
Rets have always been assciated with slow weapon. LETS MAKE FUN OF THEM AND MAKE THEM RELY ON FAST WEAPON AHAHAH

Would be fine if they gave us dualwield, make CS and DS hit with both weapons and make seals affect both weapons.

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Think so too. Dual wield would solve the weapon issue we’re facing. Even if seals would only proc from one weapon, we could see it proc on a fast off-hand and keep a slow main hand weap for optimal damage.

playing paladin retribution isn’t fun for me at the moment, it’s just constant exorcism spam. and I’m really outraged that our main weapon is not looted in ST.

At this point in time, Blizzard should swap either Rune of Seal of Martyrdom or Rune of Divine storm form chest slot to the wrists slot and replace either Rune of Purifying power or Rune of Improved Hammer of Wrath.

This is the only change retribution really needs for the whole toolkit to make sense at this point in time with both slow and fast weapons.

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We have that already HoR is on wrists and can be used with a 1 hander. Hits way harder DS.

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I don’t know where you saw that but HoR is not working with a 2h weapon.

unless if they made a recent change I’m not aware of

are u trolling ?

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Edit:- Was supposed to say 1 hander. I saw the Rets in AoE fights were using a 1 hander and HoR in the logs. The top guy whos parsers got made null because Darkmoon card exploit used a 1 Hander the whole raid and did 1.4k dps.

After the card exploit nerf maybe 2 hander is better now. I juatvsaw pre exploit all the top Rets had HoR.

We will see this week what happens.

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