Paladins Gloat

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
1

My view is coming from a mainly paladin guild, Exo MS, Tank OS.
What should be buffed (It’s short I swear)
Healing, Improving or completely changing some of the talents is deadly needed. There is absolutely no flexibility.
What has been fairly nerfed.
Paladin Tank Thorn build.
Not many people use it but first hand dueling a full t1 BiS tank, I dealt damage, he stood still and I killed myself from holy shield and i’ve seen a lot of people kill themselves on him in world PvP.
I know not many of you here play the game enough but before the 6 set nerf on t1 it was an insanely funny build to see in action for world pvp.

How paladin works and how to improve it:
[This will be split into 2 parts for the 2 main builds. Exo and Seal twist]
PVP
A lot of the complaints people give is about the Seal twist build and the burst killing them within 1 or 2 CDs. This does happen, i’ve done it but it’s a very specific build that if you nerfed how you lot act on this forum, our max would be 1k dps in PvE and half of you lot aren’t actually effected (because alliance never actively PvPs) by it and just complain because you’re banned of twitter.
A lot of horde will be glad about that but the amount of complaining about how Shaman is now dead in logs. Something i’m glad about.
PVE
Talking about logs, Seal twisting is very, very rewarding in DPS. It’s set dependant but probably the most flexible within what gear you have. You have a sub category of seal stacking, in a great place. Don’t nerf it buff everyone else, it’s been brilliantly made and the people who have made it obviously have played paladin in the past few phases.

Exo
PvP
It’s a RNG class, if you don’t have wild strikes, HOJ, 40% crit. Which you won’t have because you’re not popping WBs in pvp, without this, you do less dps than warriors.
PvE
It’s easy but it’s gear dependant it doesn’t need any nerf, maybe the class weapon needs a bit of a nerf and a few other weapons need a bit of a buff.

Paladin PVP
How would you nerf paladin into the ground without killing their PVE?
Remove HoJ effect from pvp, equally remove any Wild strike effect from PvP. Decrease pvp damage done by holy spells. Increase GCDs in PvP. Everyone complains but this is how you kill Paladin PvP.

Paladin Tanks
Oh my, you should re roll paladin, get tier 2 6 set just to feel how good tanking is with the new set bonus. You are a machine gun in melee attacks and you just don’t die. Tier 1 6 set is perfect for dungeons, I’m surprised you don’t see more paladin tanks.

Overall:
Don’t nerf, buff other classes. We have not seen a proper buff for other classes in ages. Get my elemental shaman up for PvE. Fix Destro Warlock. Fix BM Hunter. Fix Arms Warrior. Keep Frost mage as it is (Trust me, get the ZG set and it’s so good). Everyone apart from them are within ~300 dps average of each other.

2

If we keep this trend going we will be clearing ZG as five in AQ. On a second thought, things are out of hand already.

I think if things would have been kept in check the top dps -world buffed and with consumes should have not been higher than 1k. A lot of issues we are seeing now could have been prevented if they tried to hold back on giving so much power.

It just seems the devs can’t help themselves from getting numbers spiral out of control, both on live and now classic…

3

I’m only mentioning classes that are 1-2k below everyone else. None of the other specs need fixing.
This won’t happen because you need 150 to 200 Nature res, you won’t be able to get this with current 6 sets.

Bosses have millions of HP. If this happened you would not be able to clear without a 40man group.

I think the power balance is good. Maybe not in PVP but in PvE the fights are around 40s - 5 minutes what is a good amount of time, Unless you are making it unfun you can’t DPS too high where you’re skipping mechanics like regular classic.

5

  1. 50% attack damage reduction (note: not attack speed reduction) when inside divine shield.

  2. In addition to being susceptible to absorption by grounding totem, HoJ can now be removed by popping decoy totem on a target already stunned by HoJ (same should apply to hunter frost trap). - this allows shamans to remove the stun on friendly targets, but not themselves as they’d not be able to cast it while stunned.

  3. whatever shenanigans they are pulling off to 1shot people both inside and outside of their bubble need to be brought in line. shamans can’t even do that, and shaman was always infamous for being the one-shot class, and this was due to luck-based WF crits, not controlled bursts, which is what paladins are doing.

  4. no squire in bg (and fix the damn stealth detection on all pets across the board).

  5. no horse during bubble / horse cancels bubble and vice versa.

6

Sorry but this doesn’t happen. You’ll already be low. You’re limited to Exocism and Judgement when in protection. You can’t melee hit

This is fair

Then you shouldn’t be able to stun whilst divine steed, mages shouldn’t be able to blink out of stuns. This does happen if you protection after steed

Idk if it is, but you should be able to resist with nature res then

There should be an internal CD with it being the remainder of the stun that it took.

Then decrease the time between attacks.

7

No Idea, if you’re aware who you’re replying to, but he is the most disingenuous poster in this forum.

Constantly arguing in bad faith like here: trying to make a false equivalency between WF and SoC.
Crying as if WF was weaker and more random than SoC, which is not only wrong, but the opposite is true.
A WF proc creates 2 extra white hits that enable weapon procs(usually only one bc of internal CDs)
SoC is not a white hit but rather a spell that deals damage - what a Paladin burst entails is the Hand of Justice proc at 2% chance per hit, that combined with a Seal Twist would result in 2 white hits + 2 SoC procs (iirc 70% chance per white hit) + 2 SoJ hits (automatic on every white hit) + Judgement which is off the GCD so a 2% chance with hopefully lots of crits (and a seal twist which disables weapon procs bc it uses GCD)

During a WF attack you generate 2 extra white hits which can trigger one Weapon proc, since you should be off the GCD during the attack, then you could have a HoJ proc on top aswell, if we wanted to equate both to something like
1 regular hit + 1 HoJ hit and now i do not recall if both can generate WF procs, but i thought it was the case for another 4 attacks in a best case scenario +1 weapon proc like Ragnaros followed up by a shock.
So actually rather similar burst with the Paladin having to do a perfect twist and the shaman only having to connect.
the other issue here is that WF procs on their own are better than SoC procs on their own, which is somewhat elliviated by twisting, in conclusion it should be in the same ballpark damage wise.

8

Fair.

Lol. Just no mate. We know you play shaman but you gotta chill on the shaman pooping on paladins, you’ve had enough phases doing that. Paladin has 1 stun and yet you complain about it more than rogue’s stuns. Pallys having only one CD makes them really reliant on it. If you want to nerf it you need to do something more subtle than ‘shamans can just insta remove it’. Especially when Shamans already have 25% resist (since they mostly are Orcs) AND they have a totem able to absorb it.

Stop bringing vanilla context to SoD. It’s not the same game and Shamans have been given more than enough tools to not need a one shot lottery build.

I agree, squire needs to go. It was a quest item and I don’t get why it didn’t disappear once the quest line was done.

No. Horse and bubble are often their only way to catch up. If bubble reduce their damage by 50% then no need to make Divine Steed unusable. Bubble will be used as a defensive more than a Mario star so they need the little mobility tools they have at their disposal to reposition.

1 Like
9

Thank you for an actually productive post.
Bubble is an extremely archaic tool in this game and 50% damage reduction instead of attack speed reduction would be the sanest approach to keep it in-game.
Now the actual underlying issue is how to balance a class so that a BiS geared player and a fresh 60 would fit into the game, let alone a Rank13 vs a full T2 which already is miles apart in damage output vs. survivability.

10

We have to understand that it’s impossible. Gear is incredibly important in a classic environment. There is no comparison between a freshly dinged 60 and a full T2 gear and it’s only gonna get worst as we unlock new phases.
Look at rets, their tier set bonuses makes them monsters when without they are not that big a threat.
If we wanted to have more consistency on the class/spec rather than gear we’d need to reduce the ratio SP/AP on rune skills so that they’d keep the samish power with our without gear and make some of the necessary tier-set bonuses baseline - while reducing the impact of new/current tier-set bonuses.
Mage for exemple absolutely needs the ZG set and/or the R13 set to be impactful in PvP. The 65% bonus to spellfrost bolt and frostbolt makes it barely ok. These are still spells needing 2.5 sec cast, with short range (30y and 36 for fb if talented) and without any pushback protection. I don’t know what the devs have in mind for next phase but I hope I won’t be stuck with this set for the rest of SoD.
One, because it’s ugly asf and two because I’d like not to be left behind when people get better gear. It would be the complete death to frost mage PvP.

11

not with current defensives/CDs in the game, if anything a 3min CD to make pally playable more often. There are a buttload of CDs that are just straightup better at what they are doing and have a shorter CD.
1min CD on Shamanistic Rage/Barkskin
3min CD on Wolves/Frenzied
Bubble is literally a 5min CD with a counter thanks to runes, and it literally just delays paladins from dying.

12

If “pally” is playable to you only under bubble that explains a lot.

You are bananas mad if you think bubble would need a 3 min cd in this clown fiesta that stands for PvP in SoD atm. People die to geared characters in the span of an interrupt or a stun.
Being immune to damage AND CC is priceless in an environment where burst is king, you would know that if you bothered to play any other class.

13

mate there are literally hundreds of videos showing paladins in phase 5 of sod running around clapping plate users and bears in 1-2 gcds.
stop gaslighting.

14

you can kick and scream all you want, but the evidence is out there.
i can bring receipts bro.
if you think paladin is going to remain in the state its currently in, let alone get stronger, you are in for a very negative surprise because you are about to get batted alongside hunter and boomkin.

15

Fascinates me somewhat to think players might actually put more thought/theory craft into the game than the people that make it

16

He said 1 shot. 2-3 GCDs fine but PvP is so bursty it goes like that for most classes.
1 Shotting says that you can 5-10k (for pvp) in 1gcd what just is not possible

Max i’ve seen complete pvp-fitted paladins is around 3.5-4k in a GCD, that’s Double judge with avenging shield (libram inc). Thats with Crits, PvE consums. Yes soon after could kill but if you’re talking about one shotting, in a single GCD it’s simply not happening.

If you’re not properly kitted out in a BG then you’re obviously there just to grind honour and not there to actually PvP

I don’t know what videos you’re seeing are but if you can show them that’d be great.

17

No other can do that while being totally immune to all damage and all other effects

18

Link plz. Show me a bear being clapped in 2 GCD I’d like to see that.

That’s true. But a simple swiftness potion could completely deny that.

19

Nope.
Just paladin, and maybe boomie and hunter.
and its not 2-3, its 1-3,

20

youtube it. its everywhere atm.
search “paladin sod compilation” and you’ll find what you are demanding i provide you.
stop being lazy.

21

Just youtube a paladin called Arkaviun

He 1v3s, globals deadly shamans etc etc. With, and without bubble.

If anyone truly believes that paladins/boomies arent way above any other class in the game at the moment in pvp you are huffing some serious copium.