Pay to win is rampant

[Kretías-tarren-mill]

@Jito-turalyon

What you’re doing is slandering. Please stop that.

Its called rhetorical hyperbole. They are free to do so.

[Uda-uldum]

@Jito-turalyon

If I were a cynical game company and I was being told to hit a higher revenue target by my owner, and one of my main sources of revenue was a certain item that customers would be more inclined to buy if they were in need of additional in-game currency, then I would strongly consider steering my product design toward making the game experience more reliant on that currency.

Honestly better that Blizzard keeps it rather than some chinese gold farmers.

Atleast I can claim that 0.1% of that revenue goes into paying some dev somewhere in California.

[Teddyblinkz-doomhammer]

You had me going for a second.

I approve <3

[Teddyblinkz-doomhammer]

Yeah THIS post is an evolved kind of bullying imo. You dish it, so man up a bit - sorry but it’s true.

[Amonet-ravencrest]

@Cro-argent-dawn

Gear becomes redundant every few months and it’s a waste of real life time and money working towards it instead of just paying.

Why do you even play the game at all? You could be working. Would the possible answer be to have fun?

[Bodhi-silvermoon]

Oh back again with the mental gymnastic topic.

Jito established last time (the previous post about this topic) that he knows not much would change with the removal of tokens because Blizz cant stop 3rd party sites to sell.

Might be that he argues that its super easy to stop and ban all sellers/buyers, just that blizz doesnt want to. Its weird that he is so cynical about some things yet extreamly naive on others.

Because you think that Blizz on principle shouldnt sell tokens and therefore makes it P2W doenst make it so.

Oh and i did laugh hard when he started with “reported for bullying”.

[Amonet-ravencrest]

“The definition of P2W does not apply to WoW so we must stretch the definition of P2W so it can apply to WoW (and every other game in existence)” - WoW is P2W 2024

[Kretías-tarren-mill]

@Bodhi-silvermoon

Oh and i did laugh hard when he started with “reported for bullying”.

Yeah, I spat out my drink. What’s next? Me complaining about someone being rude back towards me? Deja complaining about snarky remarks? Tahra complaining about someone wanting to play solo?

[Jóóló-drakthul]

World of Warcraft (WoW) is not considered “pay-to-win” (P2W) in the traditional sense. While the game offers optional microtransactions such as mounts, pets, and cosmetic items through the in-game shop, these do not provide any direct advantage in gameplay or progression. The core experience of WoW, including leveling, raiding, and PvP, can be fully enjoyed without spending extra money beyond the subscription cost.

However, there are some aspects that could be seen as leaning toward “pay-to-advance” rather than “pay-to-win.” For example:

1. Character Boosts: Players can purchase level boosts, which allow them to skip the leveling process and immediately access endgame content. While this can save time, it does not grant any significant advantages beyond convenience.
2. Cosmetic Purchases: Items like mounts or pets, which are bought through the shop, don’t impact gameplay but are considered a form of spending money to enhance the aesthetic or personal collection.

So, while WoW offers some convenience and cosmetic purchases, it doesn’t provide an advantage that affects a player’s ability to succeed in the game. Players still need to engage in the game’s systems to progress meaningfully.

[Keento-argent-dawn]

@Amonet-ravencrest

Why do you even play the game at all? You could be working. Would the possible answer be to have fun?

Please see Blizzard Policy #24563: Fun is absolutely not allowed in this game.

[Redde-draenor (Redde)]

Blizz dont make Pay to win for gears.
Blizz wanted players get gears then theirselves upgrades from stones or drop RNG.

Only stupid players made “Pay to win” for sell gears. Or sell players join elites players for easy beat bosses

So better find group dont care about ilevel. Wihout P2W

[Amonet-ravencrest]

@Keento-argent-dawn

Fun is absolutely not allowed in this game.

Too bad I’m having it.

[Keento-argent-dawn]

@Amonet-ravencrest

Too bad I’m having it.

Reported for having fun!
Expect the Blizzard police soon!

[Amonet-ravencrest]

@Keento-argent-dawn

Expect the Blizzard police soon!

They won’t take me alive.

[Ruffntuff-silvermoon]

@Jito-turalyon

I think it’s one of those Pandora’s box situations where you can’t really undo it, unfortunately.

There was an attempt a few months back and before the launch of TWW. Something about restrictions added to how you can use the tokens. You will need to search the forums or wowheads. Anyway my point really is they can’t close the lid not without a compromise but then again boosting has been in the game since day 1. So it really does not matter - players will always find a way legally or illegally.

[Jito-turalyon (Jito)]

@Ruffntuff-silvermoon

There was an attempt a few months back and before the launch of TWW. Something about restrictions added to how you can use the tokens. You will need to search the forums or wowheads.

Blizzard added a restriction on the in-game buying of WoW Tokens with gold, that the account making the purchase must have bought at least 1 month of subscription with actual money at some point.
I think that’s what you’re referring to? And it’s a good change by Blizzard, as it does curb the botters’ ability to easily keep their subscriptions running…a little bit and in some circumstances, but nevertheless, it’s a good change.

@Ruffntuff-silvermoon

Anyway my point really is they can’t close the lid not without a compromise but then again boosting has been in the game since day 1. So it really does not matter - players will always find a way legally or illegally.

Sure. I’ll echo the OP’s point and say that it’s not so much the presence of boosting that’s come as a surprise – because as you say, then it’s always been there – but it’s more how rampant it’s become in modern WoW. It’s very normalized and widespread now, and also super approachable and not frowned upon at all.

Of course whether that’s an issue or not is down to personal opinion about whether this boosting market we see is a harmful addition to the game or not.

I probably lean toward that boosting doesn’t matter to a degree, but at some point it gets too widespread.
I like the comparison to Diablo II where there was duping and maphacks and botting going on. And initially it was there but not very noticeable in the game, but then it became more widespread and had a real impact on the game, and at some point it became so widespread that it felt detrimental to the game.
But that’s still a personal feeling. When is the water too hot?

[Gorrak-ragnaros]

Dont try bring common sense here.

@Ruffntuff-silvermoon

Anyway my point really is they can’t close the lid not without a compromise but then again boosting has been in the game since day 1.

Wow that would take some crazy skills to lvl up to 60 and selling carries already on the 1st day. Dam.

[Dodgethìs-defias-brotherhood]

This is not about having to make own group or that there are tokens in game.
This is about inviting people with scores and achievements, but then they don’t know how to play the game. And I am not saint I was tempted to buy boost as well to save time having to progress and learn.
So many people have now purchased scores and achievements, I am making my own groups for a long time and this makes it like REALLY hard.

[Dungone-doomhammer]

@Jito-turalyon

If I were a cynical game company and I was being told to hit a higher revenue target by my owner, and one of my main sources of revenue was a certain item that customers would be more inclined to buy if they were in need of additional in-game currency, then I would strongly consider steering my product design toward making the game experience more reliant on that currency.

And that isn’t happening today?

@Amonet-ravencrest

Second expansion in a roll I am barely spending gold though, and I play at a high-ish level.

And how many hours a week does that take you? I have made all the gold I have spent this expansion, but I have spent an obscene amount of time playing the game. Just running alts through delves can earn me 100k a day, But this is a lot of alts in multi-box set up. This is outside the reach of normal players.

I was extremely saddened to see two friends come play wow. I did what I could to fast track them. I pushed them through delves as soon as they completed the requirement to join at the level 8 standard. The first thing they did when they saw the AH prices was buy a token. Their argument was that it would take them too long to earn that sort of gold.

This game shouldn’t be like this. It is just an abusive relationship.

[Dungone-doomhammer]

@Jito-turalyon

Sure. I’ll echo the OP’s point and say that it’s not so much the presence of boosting that’s come as a surprise – because as you say, then it’s always been there – but it’s more how rampant it’s become in modern WoW. It’s very normalized and widespread now, and also super approachable and not frowned upon at all.

It is now my firm opinion, that the proposed changes coming for M+, regarding the removal of the key depletion, are nothing more than adding ease to the boosting market. They are the only ones who benefit from the change. Their key will never be at risk. The change has zero bearing on those who complained about the system. In fact it is in the interest of Bli££ to keep the lower keys at a higher level to make the boosting system more desirable.