You are writing this as in that the item you want is a 100% drop. You do realize, that if we ignore classic / tbc, and take WOTLK - MOP before PL came, usually 2 items dropped for a 10 man group, and 5 for a 25 man group, so the chances of you getting the specific item + winning a roll with the old model, are probably lower than getting it on personal loot.
I think the system is way better. Plus gear can be traded. Overall itâs a much better experience. The only people that can actually complain about ML / GL are high end guilds who do RWF, but I donât care about them since itâs 0.1 - 0.5 % of the playerbase.
I dont think so i dropped many Items wich i do not need (Bad stats or i just have a similar Piece alrdy) and i just cant trade it
its not only RWF people i am not a RWF Raider and they do not care anyway since they Split Raid with 4 Characters or pay people to Split/Trade Items with them
Oh and the old System is just better for Guilds idk it was fun to equip ur Guilds and Friends like that i mean u can make it optional or not?
Luckily enough we can talk about it with certainty.
Chances for getting the item you want right now: 1/5 x 1/X where X is the number of available itemdrops for your class & spec.
Chances for getting the item you wanted back then: 1/5 x (5 x 1/X) x 1/Y with X being the available itemdrops for whatever boss youâve killed and Y being the number of players who need the item.
At first glance, chances right now seem better
However, the first glance isnât always correct, since for the second part, the variable Y can, and will, change, with each time that item drops, until you ultimately end up having a 1/5 x (5 x 1/X) chance to get the item you want, where was with personal loot, it will always be a 1/5 x 1/X chance.
I personally am not a part of the RWF guilds, nor of the 0.1% - 0.5%, but Iâd still like at the very least unrestricted personal loot, as in a personal loot without trade restrictions.
I hate receiving loot that I canât trade and donât need. It feels much worse than losing a roll on an item that I did in fact need.
Also with a different version of loot, perhaps we wouldnât drown in rings, necklaces and cloaks so much.
My guild has looted at least two Sylvanas rings each time weâve downed her.
I also prefer this system. I get far more loot with PL than I ever did under ML. I get to control my loot and give it away if I want to, if itâs something I need itâs mine.
In theory ML done right can be a good system but far too many guilds didnât do it well. They played favourites, trials were often excluded or given lower prio, then there are the various points systems with their pros and cons. If all you are going to do is roll it out to everyone then there really isnât a whole lot of difference.
You can bet when a good but unwanted item is rolled out, every man and his dog will chance a roll on it
My guild back in Cata had no clue how to ML. Ended up arguing with them and leaving.
The issue? They wanted to force a set piece on me from Heroic Dragonsoul when I had the normal one. Instead of giving someone who didnât have 4 set the piece.
A stroke of genius that, give the healer a slight item level increase when in reality the DPS was lacking, and someone would get 4 set from that piece.
I used to clear ICC weekly on multiple difficulties for almost a year and I could never get my hands on Dislodged Foreign Object, nor the twilight scales in RS
Thanks for writing the analysis What you wrote is true, if Y is variable, things can change in your favour way more than with PL, thatâs true.
However, with PL there is 1 additional twist. You can also bring Y as a variable, since you only bring people that can loot the same type of armor. Yes the splits are essentially boring and hard work, but getting geared through splits is essentially faster and more guaranteed than gearing with ML if we take the RWF guilds. This obviously doesnât really happen in a normal enviroment, and itâs a case just for RWF splits and for boosts where someone would stack a specific type of armor, so it doesnât really count in normal progression / gearing path.
Also yes, I agree with this fully.
I have encountered this numerous times in M+ runs, where someone who favours crit / mastery, gets showered in versa / haste gear which is perfect for me for example. Since itâs higher ilvl, it couldnât be traded so it went to trash. I could have used it and it would be a very nice upgrade. Even the RWF issue could be countered with this restriction being removed, however as said above, Iâm still for PL > ML / GL systems as Iâm not playing with guildies / friends, aswell as exactly what Puny said:
True so much And remember back in wotlk, so many âIf under xxx k dps, you wonât get lootâ runs. Happened so often on Mazrigos - EU, where I started playing. The logic behind these was so off⌠And Iâm not for boosting people / against kicking or not inviting people that really underperform, but sometimes these ICC groups had incredibly high dps requirementsâŚ
True, but Iâd argue that people doing splits is something inherently rare in WoW and mostly happen in either boosts or the RWF raids, which are both very niche scenarios that canât and shouldnât be valued as relevant for a topic such as this.
Using the world first guilds as an example, who effectively buy items for the gold equivalent of several tens of thousands of euro, just doesnât quite cut it for me.
I donât believe anybody would ask for Master Loot back if PL didnât have any trade restrictions. Or rather, I donât believe anybody with good intentions would ask for Master Loot back if PL didnât have any trade restrictions.
Sure we still have an issue with rings, necklaces and cloaks being overabundant compared to hunter weapons or agi daggers, but just about any other issue with PL can be resolved by removing trade restrictions.
But the reason PL has trade restrictions is the very said niche scenario, namely the race to world first and splits, so that people canât create raids with 30 paladins and funnel all gear into one of them.
Which comes back to my point of the game being designed around said 0.1% - 0.5% which it shouldnât be.
I never understood why people join these runs. Itâs enabling the worst kind of behaviour. In WoD, the premade group finder was filled with âXYZ LOCKEDâ runs.
Never joined any of those runs and all the characters Iâve played back then ended up pugging Archimonde HC at least once. All with PL, even though ML was an option.
But people enabling horrible behaviour on the internet is besides the point.
People like PL more than ML, thatâs fine, but why have trade restrictions on PL?
My disc priest doesnât want their garbage tier set more than a holy paladin wants their entirely overpowered one, why canât my priest trade tier tokens to them, if I want to?
My ele shaman doesnât want the ring with 200+ mastery and ~30 of another stat, why canât I trade it to somebody whose best stat is mastery?
My monk tank doesnât want the necklace with 200+ haste, same question, for the third time.
I genuinely dislike having to toss away items. Itâs usually only an issue in the first few weeks of a patch, but every time I loot an item thatâs BiS for somebody else, but canât trade it to them, I canât help but wish for a PL without trade restrictions. Or Master Loot. Or Guild Master Loot. Anything would be fine, really.
I mean itâs my item as people put it, even though I consider that statement weird given how it was earned in a group content, but again, besides the point, why canât I decide what happens with my item?
Also since this was brought up: Nobody who isnât extremely gullible bought the entire âtrials deserve loot tooâ argument that was given together with the removal of Guild Master Loot.
The reason Guild Master Loot was removed was because itâs less drama, less tickets and thus Blizzard could fire more of their customer service employees, as well as removing it made splits entirely unattractive towards anybody but the very very very top of raid guilds.
Now that we are actually talking about it, do you know the real reason why the trading restrictions are actually in place? I see 0 reaasons behind this decision.
And to give you an example. Yesterday I did a +15 Mists. I got a neck, and despite having Unity as my neck piece, I couldnât trade it to someone who would need it really bad. The dude had a 236 neck, and this one was 262. Huge upgrade, ilvl and stats wise for him. Obviously I couldnât trade it due to the stupid restrictions, so it went to the vendor. Such a shame.
Well we were given the reason âso that nobody could be forced to trade an item that was actually an upgrade for themâ.
Everybody with an ounce of game understanding sees that higher itemlevel != upgrade, so that argument is invalid. I just recently traded away an Anduin HC ring, which was indeed an upgrade to me, even though I had rings with the same or even a higher itemlevel.
I personally believe itâs solely so that splitraids donât become even more degenerate, which would come back to the entire âdesigning the game around the 0.1%â.
With ML, splits were reasonably efficient and not much of a hassle to do, so that quite a few guilds could do it. I remember running splits back in wotlk in a, at best, worldrank 50 guild, I donât think with PL a worldrank 50 guild would ever run splits.
With PL, splits are very efficient, but quite a hassle to do, thus only the very top guilds run splits.
With PL without trade restrictions, splits would be even more efficient and a fair bit less of a hassle to do, given how you could simply ask everybody to have an alt or two of a different class at max level, they donât even need gear.
I genuinely believe itâs because Blizzard fears that splits would become a common thing in raiding. And with âcommon thingâ I mean âa non irrelevant number of hall of fame guilds would run splitsâ.
I donât believe anybody at worldrank 300 or worse would run splits, so itâs still only something that affects at best 1-2% of the playerbase, but I do believe thatâs their reasoning. A reasoning I consider silly.
I dislike personal loot, always have. Had more issues with it then I ever have with group loot or master loot.
I accept people have their own opinions but what I donât understand is why PL is enforced as the only option. Surely allow all loot systems and let people join guilds/groups that use the system they prefer.
What you wrote is true, if Y is variable, things can change in your favour way more than with PL, thatâs true.