Pet peeves: The return (Part 8)

I kinda want to get back to this here for a sec and preface it by “I do not specifically mean you, Vixí. I’m talking about anglophone media and it’s perception of stuff written by people who’re ESL”:
Swear words in a language that isn’t your native language do not register as much as the ones you’re used to. Combine that with lots of languages simply not doing the whole “replacement swear word” thing and ESL writers will almost always miss the mark on how much is too much or too little for a grittier setting. You’ll almost always need to ask a native of your target audience to check if something fits or not.
It’s an insane amount of work.

That said, I’ve also seen people complain about how much swearing there was in media that wasn’t aimed at the English market but got popular enough for there to be a release with English subs/dubs.
It’s just how people in some places talk unless there’s really small kids around. Nothing edgy about it.

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That does make sense, and thank you for laying it out like this properly!

I just, I guess I feel a bit tired of the trope used in dystopian sci-fi & or medieval settings, that the main way to portray how dark a setting is it just have the women in it be treated absolutely poorly & or get barraged with really crude sexual language or misogyny.

It gets dull. There are so many other ways to show that its a serious or gritty setting.

And I feel like its a pitfall CDPR have fallen into quite alot with both Witcher and Cyberpunk.

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Ten times closing the game after this buttwipe used Memento over and over, I finally got this in a Friendball.

Yaaaay.

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PSA: Stormwind is very laggy right now because MoP Remix has ended and every timerunner character has been deposited near Chromie.

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Yeah this specific thing gets real tired real fast. I do think CDPR mostly uses it as a really easy way to show a (male) character as a bad guy though they should look into a bunch of the other options there. Culturally we’re really missing out to have something equally bad in terms of language for men.

Also there’s a big difference between cursing and cursing at someone that doesn’t always translate well either.

The timelines are collapsing


Peeve: Getting older while working a job that has you get up early makes you get used to getting up early even on your days off. This does not combine well with my night owl tendencies.
So tired
But can’t sleep anymore
:dracthyr_cry_animated:

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Regarding grittiness and dark fantasies/scifi and their portrayal of brutality in the setting, I don’t personally see it bwing overused. Most history sources basically agree on the fact that pre modern era life just universally sucked balls everywhere.

Get a small cut on your hand from a rusty nail? Yep thats a tetanus and you die.

Be a bit too good looking and good with taking care of others as a woman? Yep you are are a witch and shall now perish.

Be a farmer minding your own business? Yep you get recruited for the 30 yesrs or 100 yesrs war. You dont even get to see any battle, you die on the way to the campaign from disease and dysentry.

And yes, R happened, breaking wheel happened, flogging happened, and the catholic inquisition and torturers put ever expanding and spiky metal bits in every orifice in your body.

Oh yeah, almost forgot, sometime a plague would sweep through the city and take out a gorillion of people. Women died in childbirt by the scores and also not many made it through infancy.

Funny story actually. My grandathers’ brother managed to trace our family line all the way to the early 1800’s. My grandfathers’ great grandfather was the 2nd child out of 8 who survived the great hunger years in finland during the 1866-68. 6 of his siblings died from hunger, he and his sister were the only ones from the family to make it to adulthood.

I feel this…so hard…
And I wish I could change my hours, cause I have that freedom in my position…
AND I JUST CAN’T!!!

My body is like “6:30 AM, rise and shine!”
And I don’t need to be at work until 09:00…

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So I’m very fussy with getting my hair cut for a few reasons. Anyway. The only place I knew of that I settled with was a 40min train journey away, which was a lot (Then gotta walk there). But recently, my friend passed their hair dressing course and can now cut it for me much, much closer! Woop! Getting it done today.

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Go bald, never worry about it again.

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Leveled a mage version of Dagnira (to be able to enter the Hall of the Guardian) and realized too late that mages can’t wield hammers.

Ah well, it was Remix, so it was very fast.

Also hit a bug while leveling. I ran into the final boss room of Scarlet Monastery just as Durand was rampaging around. He ran towards me through the front door and despawned. Whitemane was dead, but the bar showed her at 1% health. Durand soon respawned and we killed him, but Whitemane stayed at 1% and we still didn’t get boss kill credit. We ended up having to disband the group and abort the borked dungeon run.

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I think my major gripe with it, at times (because I enjoy dark/gritty settings) is that they often fall into the mistake of making it too much so, because ‘it used to be like that back in the day!’ when their sources of ‘back in the day’ is a bunch of Victorian era ponces trying to make themselves look better by pretending anything that came before was much worse

There’s a lot of bad misunderstandings about the medieval era (if you can even call that a single era - which you can’t, really, but that’s besides the point), ie people didn’t marry when they were just kids (usually early 20s!) and that’d shift to even later in the early modern era (The Emperor Charles V did some legalese about marriage for men under the age of 25 and women under the age of 20), and only went down (much) further far later

Similarly, sexism is often portrayed as ‘gritty’ when women only get to sit at home because ‘it used to be like that’, but that too is only a much later thing - economical circumstances didn’t even allow for that to happen. Men and women’d have different roles in the agricultural work in the rural parts of the world, but they’d both work, and in the cities women’d generally also work, like in construction, or in carpentry (mind that a carpenter’s guild also enveloped painters and any and all sorts of that sort of thing), or other crafts (vs the often thought of sitting at home vs nunnery vs prostitution and nothing else).

The Inquisition wasn’t like the (horrid) Spanish Inquisition during the Reconquista and Italian Inquisition during the contra-Reformation and often functioned much more like a civil court but for religious matters.

etc etc

tl;dr I think the pitfall of a lot of ‘ohhh im writing a gritty setting…’-ing is not in making them gritty, or dark, or terrible places to live in, it’s in arguing that ‘things used to be like that!!’ as the sole reason to make them more so than reality often was, because that’s often based less on the actual way of things at the time (and how these were terrible) and more on 19th century brits’ attempts at feeling better about their own horrible society - like how most ‘medieval’ torture tools are Victorian works and inventions of fiction. Renaissance and Victorian era writers have done a very good job, too, at making the whole 1000-ish year period look like an era without science or learning, when it actually saw major scientific developments throughout, with the sciences in Western Europe especially being broadly well-funded by the Church (once again as opposed to its usual depictions which then carry over in fiction)

the issue isn’t settings being terrible places to live in because historically, things were and that’s where they draw inspiration from, it’s because the inspiration they draw to justify it being sucky is drawn from the wrong sources, at least if you want to root the terrible nature of it in reality!

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Small service announcement: It’s comp stomp week. Grab your easy pvp transmog things before the expansion

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Being an atheist is a frankly exhausting set of circumstances that just makes you more keen to say “I’m a non-praticising Christian” because anytime a religious discussion comes up you’ll get the atheist who insists schools, universities and scientific advancement all came from rebellion against the Church when in reality it was the Church who massively funded schools, universities and scientific advancement usually all by itself with its wealth because it wasn’t bound by national politiking and could freely invest in these things because they were deemed “the common good of man”.

Almost every university, almost every major scientific advancement can be traced back to either church funding or a priest who spent 4 decades of their life studying biology, pathology, astrology, sociology, etc.

Heisenberg has a really funny quote about it: “The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will make you an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.” which essentially just means: once you reach the pinnacle of possible knowledge you’re able to accumulate, you become aware of how little you truly know or understand even about the science you’ve spent your life learning and so you turn to faith and belief in the systems you’ve created, the mathematics you’ve performed; and its the exact same sort of faith and belief that religion makes use of.

Please don’t. Atheists need more visibility. Nice atheists even more so.

Sincerely, a hopefully-nice atheist.

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You’re just jumping from one extreme perspective to another. Like every other group, denomination, or otherwise that’s ever existed, it was (is?) made up of people. Some good, some bad, many who politicked and many who acted in what they thought was the greater good.

Saying that the historical Church was unambiguously good is as misleading as saying it was unambiguously bad.

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Sadly I think I was damned from the start via a Catholic upbringing. I’m probably somewhere between an Agnostic Theist and an Agnostic Atheist. It’s hard to say for sure; I don’t think faith and belief in a Greater Power are inherently contradictory to science, and neither does the Church (despite what some people think) because the Church is still one of the highest-funders of scientific advancements across the world even to this day, in large part because they work on the Catechism principle.

I didn’t want to make my post 5 pages longer by going over the good and bad elements :pensive:, I just responded to Adelais with regard to the historical misinterpretation that science came from rebellion against faith rather than as an act of faith. But no organisation, despite how pure, is ever free of corruption in its entirety - its just the inherent fate of all organisations and groups that they are or will become corrupt, not necessarily in obvious ways, but in minor, imperceivable ways.

I have a counterargument, but these margins are too small for it. Let’s agree to disagree.

Don’t believe in the you that believes in me, and don’t believe in the me that believes in you. Believe in the you that believes in yourself.

row row fight the power

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I was also raised as Catholic and attended Catholic schooling until I was eighteen. All it did was inform and kickstart my opposition to organised religion.

Anyway, with your post length there was plenty of space for nuance that I think you missed. Because, sure, you can point out positive development that came from the Church of the middle ages, but you can also point out a massive laundry list of horrendous acts too.

In a modern context, organised religion is very much anti-science and anti-progress on a very broad scale. There’s a reason why there’s such an intersection between atheists and queer people and why atheists today will view religion through a lens of its anti-intellectualism.

It’s also worth noting that by funding science, you get a hand on the wheel and thereby control the flow and development of that science.

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I had this initially because I thought I was being really edgy going against the grain but then I just started to feel edited by moderator because it was such a pointless thing to do and showed only my own arrogance and inability to understand the greater viewpoint. I just don’t agree with the perspective that all organised forces are a great evil seeking to keep everyone chained, it’s far too nihilistic a viewpoint to hold for me, most systems are/were in place for a reason to provide order and stability to a chaotic livelihood, it’s a noble endeavor but also one mired in its own continual issues.

Absolutely, yeah, no-one is free of any sin and we’re all Human; organisations rarely maintain their original missions either for better or ill as times change and progress makes way for new viewpoints that overtake the old.

I think this is where you have to understand the nuance of the other side as well, Christians aren’t one big group, they’re split into hundreds of sects with their own ideologies, beliefs; most all agree science and progress are good, the nutters in America who aren’t actually Christian not withstanding. On a broad scale the Church has been the greatest funder of educational and scientific pursuits the world has ever known, and I don’t think they did it out of a desire to secretly control the flow of information and decide what sciences get worked on and what one’s don’t, it was all the efforts of individual priests in their parishes/monasteries that just became a greater part of Church culture over time. I can’t really say, from that perspective, that organised religion is therefore anti-science and anti-progress; they have some out-dated cultural beliefs, absolutely, but anti-science? All evidence is to the contrary.

I understand the point of this is to say that it allowed them to control the flow of progress and information for several hundred years, I’ve no doubt some people in the Church probably did think that, but it feels really unfair + unhinged conspiracy theory-esque to me to buy into that concept because a lot of these scientific advancements came from Individuals who were part of the Church rather than the Church as a whole.

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