Petition: Introduce Dragonflight PVP gearing in season 4

[Lionsword-chromaggus]

1. Honor gear having a standard PVP item level that does not require upgrading. The PVE item level can be upgraded via honor
2. Conquest gear having a standard PVP item levle that does not require upgrading. The PVE item level can be upgraded with Honor depending on current rating.

[Spiritz-amanthul]

agree, well i made a thread about it as well.
so easy to implement, but they dont care

[Broxisqt-blackrock (Broxisqt)]

i mean obviously they are not going to implement such a feature right now. I wouldnt do that too if i run blizzard.
They didnt even finally decide how the gearing process will look like in Dragonflight so why implementing a new system right now that might change in a few months again. Sounds like a really bad idea. In Shadowlands PvP gearing was polished in the last few weeks of beta. I think you guys need to be a bit more patient.

Gearing system right now is okayish and looks like it will improve and be the best we ever have in DF.

[Chúkky-ravencrest]

This is what everybody wants. its easier to create 2 sets and thats it. but no blizzard has to use upgrade poop etc. it would be more skill requirement then the heavy gear requirement we have now

[Eilein-argent-dawn (Eilein)]

With how easy it is to gain honor in 3v3 skirmish the upgrades aren’t that bad nowadays unlike at the very start of SL.
I am just afraid they will add something more annoying in DF. There must be a catch. I don’t believe that you can just get conq set that easy and be done.

[Beoulf-neptulon]

@Eilein-argent-dawn

There must be a catch. I don’t believe that you can just get conq set that easy and be done.

i am also wondering how long would be the grind to obtain the honor set and the conquest set.

[Ðraegor-the-maelstrom]

@Chúkky-ravencrest

This is what everybody wants.

Considering that’s apparently what everybody wants, this was probably the saddest petition I’ve ever seen.
Free bump for you guys.

[Bewarê-frostmane]

@Ðraegor-the-maelstrom

Considering that’s apparently what everybody wants, this was probably the saddest petition I’ve ever seen.

You’re forgetting a few things though. For one, did anyone even think a petition would change anything? The only ones who’d sign something like that would be the ones who still believes it can make a difference. Secondly, people are just waiting for the next expansion. Very few would expect or demand a big change like that, to happen before they’ve already said they’d do it. In other words, people are just waiting for the change they already know is coming, and therefore know the problem will be solved even though it’s not right this instant.

The rest of this expansion is just a waiting room, for PvEers and PvPers alike.

[Brodanyo-burning-legion (Brodanyo)]

They said they won’t do it “because of Warmode”

[Ðraegor-the-maelstrom]

@Bewarê-frostmane

You’re forgetting a few things though. For one, did anyone even think a petition would change anything?

I don’t think that but those people we keep starting them seem to believe that, no?

[Beoulf-neptulon]

Exacrly this! I dont think they would spend the dev time to implement that change in s4. The current system works good for SL, the grind does not take long , actually its quite fast to get arena ready. I just hope the grind for the sets in DF wont be long.

[Bewarê-frostmane]

@Beoulf-neptulon

The current system works good for SL

Just to be clear, I don’t like the systems used in Shadowlands. Catch-ups were a breath of fresh air, but other than that it’s been a horrible experience in the preparation stage.

@Beoulf-neptulon

I just hope the grind for the sets in DF wont be long.

I suspect they’ll use outdoor/instanced PvE content to get PvPers to feel the urge to grind honor in order to upgrade the PvP gear’s ilvl in PvE, because everyone will get the same ilvl in PvP with the conquest gear but rating and honor will still be required like in Shadowlands in order to upgrade the PvE ilvl on the conquest gear.

The one good thing, is that it’d be a little more laid back, since those who absolutely do not care for PvE, will still have the option of sticking with only PvP. But I do suspect Blizzard will throw in incentives to at least give outdoor PvE a try even if you only care about PvP, since that has been their MO for quite a long time already.

[Beoulf-neptulon]

@Bewarê-frostmane

Just to be clear, I don’t like the systems used in Shadowlands. Catch-ups were a breath of fresh air, but other than that it’s been a horrible experience in the preparation stage.

Yes me too, i dont like the systems and specially the stacked power systems on top of each other, what i ment is that s3 is definitely the best iteration of this systems and made it much more easy than before. I am sorry that i didnt made my self clear. I prefer the MoP/WoD system and talent trees.

@Bewarê-frostmane

I suspect they’ll use outdoor/instanced PvE content to get PvPers to feel the urge to grind honor in order to upgrade the PvP gear’s ilvl in PvE, because everyone will get the same ilvl in PvP with the conquest gear but rating and honor will still be required like in Shadowlands in order to upgrade the PvE ilvl on the conquest gear.

The one good thing, is that it’d be a little more laid back, since those who absolutely do not care for PvE, will still have the option of sticking with only PvP. But I do suspect Blizzard will throw in incentives to at least give outdoor PvE a try even if you only care about PvP, since that has been their MO for quite a long time already.

That sound possible and fair to be honest.

[Bewarê-frostmane]

@Beoulf-neptulon

That sound possible and fair to be honest.

There’s a potential danger in it too though. In WoD, they threw in versa off-pieces in WoD s1 as a rep grind from Trashran, to get PvPers interested in more “outdoor” stuff (Trashran was an instance, but it was a never-ending instance, but point is that they did it to bribe PvPers into engaging with their new hyped-up feature of the expansion).
Then in WoD s2, they introduced a BiS trinket for everyone. But you could only get it, from the Trashran weekly box, and it was RNG if you’d get the trinket, and it was RNG if the trinket would roll the correct secondary stats, and yet you could only get it once per week per character.

So in WoD s3, they just simply upgraded the ilvl of the new season’s gear so it wouldn’t be exactly the same as WoD s2, kept the exact same elite transmogs but shifted the color schemes on the unrated stuff because Alliance and Horde got their own colors on the unrated stuff in WoD s2 (which, as mentioned, was then switched around for WoD s3), and then made the weekly BiS trinkets obtainable from the blue boxes you could get from unrated content like skirmish and BGs, and from events in Trashran (Oh god, the events…), with the exact same ilvl as the WoD s2 epic BiS trinket except the trinket from the unrated boxes was blue quality.

At the same time in WoD s3, they also launched a new ilvl on the BiS trinkets to match the upgraded ilvl on the gear for the new season. This new BiS trinket was also only obtainable from the weekly box from Trashran. There were people complaining about not having gotten it after (according to them, I have no reason to doubt) having spent every week since WoD s3 launched doing the weekly box quest in Trashran.

So Blizzard basically kept PvPers “motivated” (a.k.a. bribed them) to keep raising the player engagement metrics for Trashran throughout the entire expansion. Holinka even announced it as a great success because of those metrics, which was just a huge slap in the face at the time.

TL;DR:
Let’s just hope they’ve learned their lesson from the failure that was WoD. It had a great system in general, except for the constant attempts to bribe players into Trashran the entire expansion.

[Beoulf-neptulon]

@Bewarê-frostmane

There’s a potential danger in it too though. In WoD, they threw in versa off-pieces in WoD s1 as a rep grind from Trashran, to get PvPers interested in more “outdoor” stuff (Trashran was an instance, but it was a never-ending instance, but point is that they did it to bribe PvPers into engaging with their new hyped-up feature of the expansion).
Then in WoD s2, they introduced a BiS trinket for everyone. But you could only get it, from the Trashran weekly box, and it was RNG if you’d get the trinket, and it was RNG if the trinket would roll the correct secondary stats, and yet you could only get it once per week per character.

So in WoD s3, they just simply upgraded the ilvl of the new season’s gear so it wouldn’t be exactly the same as WoD s2, kept the exact same elite transmogs but shifted the color schemes on the unrated stuff because Alliance and Horde got their own colors on the unrated stuff in WoD s2 (which, as mentioned, was then switched around for WoD s3), and then made the weekly BiS trinkets obtainable from the blue boxes you could get from unrated content like skirmish and BGs, and from events in Trashran (Oh god, the events…), with the exact same ilvl as the WoD s2 epic BiS trinket except the trinket from the unrated boxes was blue quality.

At the same time in WoD s3, they also launched a new ilvl on the BiS trinkets to match the upgraded ilvl on the gear for the new season. This new BiS trinket was also only obtainable from the weekly box from Trashran. There were people complaining about not having gotten it after (according to them, I have no reason to doubt) having spent every week since WoD s3 launched doing the weekly box quest in Trashran.

So Blizzard basically kept PvPers “motivated” (a.k.a. bribed them) to keep raising the player engagement metrics for Trashran throughout the entire expansion. Holinka even announced it as a great success because of those metrics, which was just a huge slap in the face at the time.

TL;DR:
Let’s just hope they’ve learned their lesson from the failure that was WoD. It had a great system in general, except for the constant attempts to bribe players into Trashran the entire expansion.

you are right thats a potential problem, but i hope they learned from their mistakes. If a person wants to do both pvp and pve he will do it if he has enough time, no need to force people to do stuff which they dont want to because that is often viewed as a chore and we had enough of this forced stuff the last couple of expansions. We will see what they will bring and how they gonna implement it. I hope that this time they pay more attention to feedback (as they claim to do so) instead of ignoring it … time will tell.

[Bewarê-frostmane]

@Beoulf-neptulon

but i hope they learned from their mistakes

I hope so too, but Blizzard have never stopped utilizing carrots to get players to move in certain ways. And just to be clear, I’m fine with that in general. But when those carrots affects player power, meaning stuff like your BiS trinket for PvP only being obtainable from a weekly box quest, and it’s both RNG if you’ll even get the trinket and then RNG if it’ll have what you want on it, that’s when it has gone too far.
Carrots should only be cosmetic for PvP. Cosmetic rewards includes stuff like mounts, titles, mogs, all of it. They’re cosmetic because they affect your appearance to others when using it, and doesn’t affect your player power.

However, PvE is different. PvE should be full of carrots that affects player power. Player power refers to things that makes your character hit harder, heal more, take less damage, so on and so forth.
So I hope they can properly separate those two very different game modes, in Dragonflight.

[Beoulf-neptulon]

@Bewarê-frostmane

I hope so too, but Blizzard have never stopped utilizing carrots to get players to move in certain ways. And just to be clear, I’m fine with that in general. But when those carrots affects player power, meaning stuff like your BiS trinket for PvP only being obtainable from a weekly box quest, and it’s both RNG if you’ll even get the trinket and then RNG if it’ll have what you want on it, that’s when it has gone too far.

totally agree , i am also fine with this just the carrot has to be for and from the related content in my opinion.

@Bewarê-frostmane

However, PvE is different. PvE should be full of carrots that affects player power. Player power refers to things that makes your character hit harder, heal more, take less damage, so on and so forth.
So I hope they can properly separate those two very different game modes, in Dragonflight.

exactly, the approach for pvp and pve has to be different. For PvP the main focus is competition, for PvE its player power and progression which require different approaches in my opinion.