Phase 5 - Raiding - feedback

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
1

Here is my summary of the raiding part of phase 5.

First of all, clearing BWL wasnt difficult at all. The trials is an additional mechanic that the raid needs to deal with but in all fairness they are hardly any challenge at all.

Black trial itself is supposed to be the hardmode but even that proved to be very easy.

If we look at ZG, it has just been a fast clear also, barely any challenge. Another bad part when it comes to ZG was that in order to get the ZG sets you had to get reputation and for certain classes that meant getting exalted. To spend countless hours/days for rep farm is not appealing, on top of that consider that many people have several alts and to have to rep farm on all of them is just not something people will do. This was one of the worst things in this phase. I have a several alts where I want to play certain specc, but it just takes too long and its not worth spending the time.

So to clarify on one hand we have fast and easy clears with BWL and ZG and on the other hand we have reputation farm in order to get the set bonuses. When you remove the challenging part out of the equation then it wont take long before this gets super boring.

This is not what makes gaming fun. The ideal situation would had been if BWL would have an actual hardmode and that ZG would had been more difficult on the hardmode level, also you would only need max honored to get full set items.

Many of us have pointed out several times that the current dev team fail to deliver challenging content. The challenging content should also be linked with getting stronger items. There is no getting away from this. You need to deliver on this, there is no game that has developed difficulty levels where they say there is no reward. Why would I bother spending my time, wiping when I can kill bosses without any wipes at all on easy mode and get the same loot? Stronger items is not only about the reward, you add an additional layer for people to challenge themselves when parsing.

By removing the stronger item option you also remove the incentive for people to strive for more.

If we look at the black trial in BWL its not even a HC level difficulty. The only “difficult” boss in BWL is chromaggus and he is really easy killable where you just need to dodge the breaths, thats all there is.

Now we have phase 6 coming later on. Its pointless to say that the current phase should be changed since its pretty much over but can you please make the next phase more challenging? SoD is a seasonal gameplay and its time you give the hardcore raiders a turn. We are not asking for new content, we are asking that you tune up the existing content aka AQ40 + AQ20.

Lastly I would also like to point out a key factor. When we started phase 5, majority of people were already full p4 bis. This wasnt the case when P4 started which is understandable since we levled up from 50-60 and we have to farm to get T0+T0.5.

Like in terms of content, Phase 4 had a lot to deliver. You need tune up the bosses for phase 6 even on the “easy difficulty” so that you cant just oneshot through it all with full bis p5 gear on the first day. There needs to be challenges.

What do the rest of you think? Discuss.

2

I think you’re putting too much effort into Season of Dads.
The difficulty is fine as it is, lots of pugs are struggling to clear all the easy content, since they are not playing with preBiS and worldbuffs + consumes.
If anything it’s a testament of how Elitism has ruined a fun pastime, no idea why you expect a solved puzzle to prove any difficulty to you, or what exactly it is you want.
This Gamemode is for old folks who want to relive a bit of their youth with a couple of fresh twists here and there

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The difficulties are not fine, there is no real hardmode. You can keep the current easy mode modes but hardmode with stronger items needs to be added.

I still dont understand why people insist on not having a proper hardmode. All the people who prefer the easier content can still play the easier content.

I playe vanilla so I am one of the old gamers and I tell you the current game play is not the way I want it to be and there are many others who agree with me. Most raiders dont bother posting in the forums, you can compare the EU forums with US Wow forums, this SoD forum is dead really.

If you want to know how people actually think the devs need to make an ingame poll and people will vote. Me personally I am around raiders and they all agree with me.

4

It would make the game more elitist than what it is

5

Even if we would have a proper hardmode, it wouldnt be close to making SoD elitist. SoD has far too much easy overall

6

You must be one of the types who do mistakes over and over again without understanding what’s wrong

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7

The devs already talked about it. They won’t make really challenging raids in SoD. It’s not what the majority of their player base wants.

You better try another version of WoW if you want challenging end-game content because it’s just not gonna happen in SoD.

8

Classic is what its always been. And making it harder is pointless since most classic players are not very good and this will only lead to frustration.

This game mode needs to be simple enough that dads can do it, and that the more serious minded players can parse and have fun with anyone.

Sadly BWL does not deliver on any of these fronts fully. While its not hard at all, and thats good. I really have to say as someone whos been playing WoW from the start, its probably the worst designed raid in history, the SoD version I mean.

-Razorgore takes too long to actually “start”, why are we still breaking 30 eggs at such a slow speed ? Most of the fight is just standing around afking.

  • Vael is actually “fun” yet for some reason they put a second debuff that people get randomly, and since it has a haste portion next to the dmg increase it cant be removed from the logs, ergo unless ur really lucky you wont be parsing high. Amazing.

  • Broodlord ? I just need to know what were they smoking when that monstrosity was made. Not only is the blink annoying, but ok you “can” counter it by moving the boss early. But oh wait ! The traps keep reactivating randomly ! Yay well done Blizzard. Lets make sure the fight is super rng and frustrating to parse.

  • Firemaw is fine imo.
    -Ebon and Flame are also ok if positioned fine.

  • Chromagus is also very annoying with his breaths and the fact that no you dont have to, but many Guilds still do take mini stops to get the Protection Potions up for that boss. It takes 4-6 mins. Again, not needed to kill, but needed to parse as high as you can.

  • And finally, Nef. An acceptable target dummy, but then ! He calls out your class, and you all those parse dreams ? Yeah, they are done. Its over. As well as (In the case of Feral) if he calls for Paladins or a few others, your dmg is just over.

They put too much rng and totally ignored AGAIN what the playerbase wants from Classic. Why ? Because just doing a cheap copy paste from SoM again was easier. They can continue to pretend that they are doing something.

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But thats the thing, Im not saying remove the easy content, infact Im telling them to keep the easy content, let the dads be happy but at the same time add a hardmode that the rest of us can play with.

Everyone get to play their game mode, everyone should be happy.

And I agree the BWL SoD version is very bad. VERY poorly made.

We all know devs wont make new content so all they can do is to change existing content and I accept that and trust me I dont need new content, as long as they use the current content and adapt/change it thats more than enough.

But it needs to be properly done, not just copy paste.

They started SoD as an easy game because they didnt know what SoD really was going to be. They have made statements in previous phases (p3?) that focus will not be on delivering hardcore content but as SoD is in development stage, ANYTHING can happen and if the current devs are sticking to no hardmode then whoever is lead should be fired. I only play with raiders and whats happening now happened in p4 and p3. People stop play, either they wait for next phase or they stop play overall.

If we look at overall SoD playerbase it has been dropping ever since start. To only please the dad gamers is even from a business standpoint the stupidest thing you could do when you have the option to please a bigger playerbase. You want real gamers even in SoD.

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Some parents just can’t behave them-self’s, I feel sorry for the children

I think some people don’t realize how much they “no life” wow

They are playing several versions

I see players advertising they have retail experience clearing stuff blah blah…/facepalm

Saw a Oldie but an Goldie the other day too which brought a smile, to my face…

“must hav gud geer Inspectshion at AH”

11

Its fine as it is… You want challenge? Parse harder

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Reading you it seems you only want target dummies type bosses so you can parse. I mean yeah mechanics are there to keep you from spamming your rotation with a one button castsequence macro, that’s just how it is. And classic wow is RNG heavy we all know that.

Remember what happened in p2 and P3 when the raids were “overtuned”. People couldn’t clear Gnomer or ST under 2 hours on the first week and the backlash was so crazy they nerfed it almost immediatly.
And the community now is too entitled to accept having a hardmode they can’t clear like a normal mode. Especially if it involves more or better loots.

I’d rather they spend more time balancing PvP since it is the real end-game in wow classic rather than add hardmode content to the game. The only thing keeping people from raid-logging in WoW is too hide a few bis behind reputation, low dungeons drop-rate or currency farm. Things they’ve done but which doesn’t feel great for the player-base.
Or, make end game easy and accessible so people can level alts and gear them without too much issue once they reach max level.

I reckon they should add more challenging solo-content though. I loved the weapon class quests from BWL items. Done it on mage and paladin and it was a blast to do alone (except the dungeon part on the pal).

The sunglasses challenge for warrior is such a GREAT idea too, big props to the dev who thought of it and hopefully they’d make it for every class.
Adding more interesting solo or group content for quirky items, cosmetics etc is, imho, a better way to keep the community engaged than to continue feeding the parse/loot greed that plagues the community.
Not that wanting the best loot or parsing high is in itself an issue, but when the focus is solely on it, it opens the door to bad behavior like ninja steal, people leaving dungeon as soon as their loot didn’t drop, exploiting as much as possible to shortcut game mechanics and guildies crying because they didn’t get prio on their BiS.

It’s a lot better than it was in P2 when the Parse madness was at it’s highest. That’s another thing in favor of easy end-game content. The community can’t be trusted with hard content because it automatically gate-keep it. Even finding a guild as a melee at the time was nearly impossible.

13

it’s crazy, right?
But to each their own

14

That wasnt a hardmode, for p3 the issue was that the bosses only had too much HP, the boss fights were too long. All they did was to reduce the HP. a fight isnt fun if you have 1 boss mechanic you have to worry about and the boss has a lot of HP, where is the challenge in that? You want more mechanic with decent boss HP.

I will also point out P5 had ZG with BWL, which meant that even if BWL would be a little bit difficult, people could easily gear up in ZG. Do not compare old phases with new phases. They are different. For p6 we will have AQ40 and AQ20. The people who enjoy easy mode, will still be able to clear their content, heck I vote even giving them more loot but hardcore should be different. I am not sure what people you are refering to when you are saying people cant even clear BWL on normal dificulty because most people are doing it. It seems you are not playing the game and you are just making up stuff to make your case.

Also you are comparing it very poorly, again no one is saying to remove the easy modes, we are KEEPING the easy modes , we just want another layer of hardmode.
You and the devs dont know the community either. There is only a few people in this forum posting and whining, they dont represent the wow community. I talk and raid with raiders all the time and we are all in agreement.

if the dev team truly wants to know what the community wants, then they need to make a poll and let people with only lvl 60 chars vote. Again, What I am talking about wont affect the people who enjoy the easy modes.

PvP is just an aspect of this game just like PvE Raiding content, both needs improvement but it doesnt mean they should pick 1 to focus on. Again you are saying they should add more new content, that is something that is very restrictive, they simply wont do that. Im not here to play wow solo content, if I want that I can go play another game.

You are also saying that because there are a few rotten people who cry they didnt get prio on their BS loot or leave dungeon when their loot didnt drop that the whole community should get punished for that? are you kidding me? There are always bad people who do whatever they want, thats part of the game however the majority enjoys going for harder content, getting stronger gear.

“they community cant be trusted with hard content” , seriously mate, you think you know whats best for the community? You are speaking absolute rubbish. You cant even get into a guild as a melee, thats not a wow problem, thats a YOU problem.

It’s absolutely not hard finding guild, but you thinking you can enter the top guilds with bad dps/gear thats just funny, of course they will deny you. You obviously prefer solo-playing content and if you raid you prefer the easy-mode raiding and mate, thats fine, neither of us are saying that you should have your easy-raid content removed. We just want another layer for ourselves, this won’t effect you.