Player Housing could revitalise WoW

Community General Discussion
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I DIDN’T.

Exactly - it’s something that’s not part of the world. It offers no gameplay whatsoever, and everybody admits it can’t, so it’s unlike the EVE system in that respect. That’s exactly what I said, but I then went on to say that, given the system has no gameplay value, we should look only at the social and community values it provides, which is less than 0. The OP tries to make some reasons for why it provides something, but for every positive he brings, I can find a negative that’s far worse.

If you aren’t going to read my posts, that’s fine, but don’t criticise me for not reading the posts I respond to while simultaneously not reading the post you’re responding to. That’s hypocritical.

It’s fine if you misread it and I can try to explain it again in good faith, but you’re doing it on purpose just to wind me up, it seems.

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The first blueprints of WOW, were with player housing in mind. I remember well how we spoke to former WOW devs about it and they had lots of ideas. In the end, it was cut from release, but was supposed to come later.

It never came as we know…

In my opinion, WOW is not giving optional content a big enough attention. Its all about the raiding, mythic dungeons and pvp. Even the transmog system has been forgotten by now, its there, but it could be so much better with dyes, unlocks from other chars or even the purchase of a blueprint.

As for player housing, since I dont raid, I would love it, especially if it had depth.

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Yep, this is absolutely true.

But the reason it didn’t come is because the developers couldn’t figure out a good way to do it, not because they didn’t have time.

They really want it, but they don’t know a good way to do it, and what the OP is saying is basically “Well you broke the game anyway so to Hell with it” which I think is just terrible.

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In fairness OP’s arguments are a lot more than “you broke the game, so to hell with it” - there are carefully argued points alluding to potential benefits for socialisation, tradeskills, player expression, use of old content and art assets etc etc. Whether you agree with them or not, to say they’ve argued a thin line for it is just not correct (to me at least).

On the contrary, the arguments I see against it seem to stem from the realm of the hypothetical fears: “People will just stay in their house” for example, ignoring the fact the OP alludes to games that do have instanced housing and yet it doesn’t result in people sitting alone in their houses.
Also a lot of these arguments assume garrisons are in any way close to what people mean by housing in WoW, which is incorrect. Most arguments for housing do not want utilities in the house. The whole point is it serves no gameplay utility- it’s about expression and sharing that expression and creativity. It also grounds our character in the world by giving them a home. At current we are eternal transients which for a game as long as WoW has been running, is pretty ridiculous.

I understand there may be a lack of agreement on blizzard’s part as to how to “do” housing, but I think that is largely they can’t seem to think of a way to do it that squares with what they want, as opposed to the form players are asking for (at least if we take OP’s thread as an example).

I mean WoD was a great example of this. It was the “answer to housing” in a way, but it wasn’t because blizzard made it a tool to achieve specific things with the expo (much to the expo’s detriment, and it was the biggest flaw of the expo in the end which was otherwise pretty solid).

Players (such as OP, and I count myself amongst them) do not want a form of housing that “services some need in the expansion”. They want a form of housing that is an entirely optional and creative pursuit that is “timeless” and independent of the systems of whatever expansion is current and I don’t think blizzard understand that.

Every expo blizzard add a little something that is a permanent addition to the game which has nothing to do with the gameplay or scope of endgame. For example; new races, new classes, new tradeskill etc. I think the customisation options would be it for SL, but then the scope of them was cut back. Exile’s reach is a new zone intended to “fast track” you onto the levelling journey to SL, so I don’t count it.
Obviously they can’t keep adding new races and classes forever, so how about they focus on adding something like housing or a “form of play” that fits the criteria?
This may well be why people say SL has little to offer “causals” - because when it comes to what it added “for the everyman” it wasn’t a class, it wasn’t races, it was a few options (poorly distributed in some races) for races they already play. It’s not much really.

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Yes, that’s a fair thing to say, but what I mean is that his dismissal of the arguments against player housing, which I think are huge and important, is basically “to hell with it”.

His arguments in favour, by contrast, are completely valid however the problems that this housing addition addresses can be addressed without adding housing anyway. It’s sort of a nice by-product.

I completely agree that WoW has a ton of unused content, and I completely agree that this is a shame, and I completely agree that systems should be added to either incentivize their use and update the lands they come from (or alternatively they should be hidden even further away to prevent people confusing themselves over there).

I just don’t think we need player housing to get to that point.

Yes, basically. But the details and intricacies are what make the feature either work or not work. They kindda have to work this out.

I think they want housing, and honestly I could see myself liking housing, but I don’t want it like it is in ESO or RIFT or WildStar. I don’t think it works well in those games, and I think it’ll work even worse in WoW.

Nah, I think they do understand that.

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I never understood these type of arguments.

To build a house or a whole housing project, you need to gather things. The first thing would be the blueprints, those could be drops, rep rewards or things you buy with achievement points.
Right now we do gain achievements without any purpose, minus a few titles here and there. They dont come from sitting in our home, they do come from playing this game, every aspect of it.
Same applies to monsters and vendors.

But if we have the blueprints, then we still need the wood, rocks, plants for a garden, fish for our pool… all these “incredients” must come from the real world and they would give the real world finally a purpose.
Right now, we do nothing after we are done questing outside of dungeons or raids. So much content in this game is a complete wasteland, nobody does it, except for a few that hunt achievements or level up.

Housing if done right, demands that players explore things, interact with each other. The professions right now, are honestly useless in most parts. Unless you offer raid supplies, or a rare transmog, your profession is just for you. This housing could change.

To build a house from scratch or a cottage or some other infrastructure, could take months and would require much more from a player in regards of leaving their comfort zone, than any raid or dungeon currently does.

The for me biggest question would be if housing should offer some kind of endgame system, making it a path to progress item wise and if so how would that look like. I personally could think about a follower system or a buff system.

If you sleep in your house, you gain a buff or you could hire a follower (someone you can fully equip), similar to SWTOR. They could lead you into adventures, similar to the solo dungeon we have now, just that you do it with your follower together.

It would never be the best loot in the game, give that to raiders. But it would be an endgame for players not into raiding, which are quite a lot I think.

But this is in my opinion the biggest questionmark over the whole system, should it be just cosmetic or with an actual endgame content type that raiders dont profit from, so that they are not feeling forced to do it.

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Starting to think I’m a masochist. My distaste for people uninterested in evidence or close reading is superseded by my commitment to dialogue. Yep, masochist.

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I’m not going to give any more attention to someone who is so committed to dishonesty. I don’t find it in the conversation’s best interest to endlessly labor over trying to dialogue with someone whose tripartite purpose is to assume, distort, and lie. There is no dialogue if one participant refuses to deal in reality.

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Thanks for reiterating these points. I was in WoW last night talking to a friend who was in EsO. He was streaming and doing something curious in the open world that appeared to be like mining or archaeology. I asked him what he was doing, and he said he was digging up fragments for some kind of profession that looked a lot like archaeology and solving tenable mini puzzles ultimately to the end of securing something for his player house.

I said, “Oh, so you’re out in the open world engaging with gameplay and experiencing these zones that you otherwise would not be doing if you didn’t have your house?”

He said, “Yes.”

This is just one tiny example in one of a dozen MMOs of how innovative holistic-driven philosophy can enrich other parts of the game alongside a feature like housing. It offers the opportunity to reimagine what profession possibilities and open-world interactions there can be. It’s sad to see so many people not only refusing to imagine, but refusing to even look at what other games have done that could likewise enrich WoW.

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I don’t think the majority of people on the General forums are going to care much for the potential plights of a roleplayer, but you’re also on Argent Dawn, so I will say this:

Player housing - while it likely wouldn’t entirely destroy it - would undoubtedly and irreversibly wound roleplaying communities such as Argent Dawn and elsewhere. This exact happening was witnessed in ESO, in which the vast majority of the community retreated to the privacy of their player-owned, phased houses in order to roleplay with their friendship groups and various cliques. The result is that you now see next to zero roleplayers out in the overworld (excluding infrequent events), and it has made roleplay much more of a chore to integrate yourself into on ESO as a result.

Again, I’m well aware that the General forums of all places have little-to-no interest in roleplay, of which is effectively a microcosm of the overarching community on WoW. In regards to matters of a more practical, gameplay focused nature, you can very easily introduce things to do inside of a private instance location (i.e. Garrisons, general player housing) and have people venture into the world for the sake of furthering either of those examples, however it will ultimately conclude with the same result: when people are ‘finished’, they’ll choose their private instances to AFK in - such as with Garrisons - and that detracts from the overall perception of the game’s community. A player tucked away within their ‘player housing’ 30%* of the time is still one less player seen in the game world for 30% of their time logged on.

However, the reality of this is not equivalent to an example concerning one person - it would take place on a vastly larger scale, and that is something that can very easily snowball as a result of people mistaking people’s presence - or lack thereof - as the result of a ‘dying game’.

*30% is obviously a randomly drawn statistic. I don’t know what the real ‘percentage’ would be, but I am willing to guess that it would be substantial enough to play an impact.

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I empathize with your concerns. But consider this: The idea that there are preferable locations for people to AFK in, that we want to essentially control where other people AFK is… uh, disconcerting? You appear to want to base part of the social efficacy of WoW on the perception that there are people in the world, even if they are AFK and not socializing. That’s a unique view… to say the least. I’m not interested in using AFK metrics to make gameplay decisions. I’d like to present a mode of engagement that has real social efficacy.

You neglect why the majority of players were able to AFK in their Garrisons in WoD- because Garrisons had almost every single quality of life feature, were tied to the story, the expansion’s power progress, and there was no new alternative hub added in WoD. Ashran was later revealed to be a sad compromise to the fact they couldn’t complete major cities in Shadowmoon and Frostfire.

Once again, a player housing instance does not have most of the quality of life features of a major city or open world crossroads and hubs. You’re also neglecting the fact that player housing is just one addition to the roster of content available in WoW. It’s alternative content. Sure, there might be folks who then only play WoW for housing, many of whom might even be new or returning players. Many people also may not touch it at all- like battle pets or transmog farming. But to suggest that the advent of player housing somehow negates the fact that people have other sh*t to do- like raiding, dungeons, pvp, questing, grinding… normal WoW things… you see how that’s odd?

So if someone is AFK in their house, it is most likely because they went AFK while working on or viewing their house, is it not? And why again would anyone take a serious stance against where someone has the right to AFK? It almost sounds insane.

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I’d be absolutely gleeful to have Blizzard introduce player housing and prove me to be entirely and unequivocally wrong in my beliefs, but I simply don’t think that would end up being the case. I have no desire to ‘police’ where people can and cannot AFK - it isn’t even remotely in my interests to do so, as it is arguably ultimately irrelevant as it stands. My point regarding that was that even if AFK metrics are not metrics that we or Blizzard should be using for next to anything, I do believe that it has the capacity to sway community perception regardless.

Frankly, my primary reason for commenting was to give the opinion and perspective of a roleplayer, even if that holds extremely little weight in the General forums. As somebody that has been roleplaying for a very long time now - and on several different games - I know from experience that player housing would ultimately affect roleplay on this game more than any other element of WoW by dramatic leaps and bounds.

Regardless, I am not naive to the fact that this is something that wouldn’t be even remotely considered by most players or Blizzard, nor am I asking it to be (or, well, maybe I am asking the latter to consider it, cough). It’s just some perspective from a small section of the game’s community - it really would have a tangible impact.

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I don’t know anything about the roleplaying experience, so I submit all deference to you in that regard. Hopefully the powers that be take note of your intervention.

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As you say- the average raid time is what, 3 hours? A dungeon, 10-20 minutes, being generous? Not to mention lockouts that say you can only do that raid once a week. And when the next patch or expansion comes? Goodbye to that content.

I’ve spent months on builds in Rift. But that is free to play- so it was free, endlessly creative content. Permanent content. I can login now after 10 years and pickup where I left off. A real steal. If WoW had the same type of content, Blizzard would certainly gain a disconcerting amount of sub time from me.

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I didn’t know that, what a shame!

I really do hope they’ll consider it at some point in the future but so far they’ve definitely not been keen.

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I think Garrison have quite lot potential, you could do so much stuff in your garrison if you just could change looks, and so on. It dont have to be just two themes when you have whole azeroth and mop, tbc, WoTLK, and so on areas where you could let players choose how they want their garrison look

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