Please bring MoP Class Design back

And you would do well to make your replies less aggressive and insulting.
Here, we both learned something, hopefully. :relaxed:

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No you don’t. You are just helplessly addicted to this game and it makes you defend literally every negative aspect of the game no matter how true it is.

It’s not even an opinion anymore that class design is utter trash. It’s a fact by now and people like you trying to play it down are worse than “I quit” posters on the forums.

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I’ll keep that in mind, although it’s no easy task to keep it together when people, in addition to being in constant denial of the current situation, are trying their best to undermine whoever doesn’t agree with them for the sole purpose of feeling better.

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Utter utter nonsense.
Just because you disagree doesn’t make it a fact.
You’re thinking your opinion on the matter is way more important than it actually is.

You are insulting and ridiculing someone else for having a different opinion. Why not just enforce YOUR opinion with REAL facts and reasons on why you THINK you are right?

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I get it, these forums can be frustrating from time to time. Especially when you are passionate about a certain topic. But they are just voicing their opinion, just like you. They have a right to their opinion, no matter how wrong you might think they are.

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Then you could formulate your questions properly, I’m not a psychic to guess what you mean. Regardless, I’ll answer you to the best of my ability, but I’ll tell you in advance that I think it’s a very dishonest direction you are trying to steer the conversation towards, and that I find that you are doing it in ill faith anyhow. Regardless, here goes.

Yes, plenty, but since I cba to write an essey on class design for no reason, I’ll do a short version with one single example: my main, my priest. In MoP, most of the class gameplay was extremely situational and positional. Abilities like well aimed Divine Star would make a huge difference depending on where you aimed it from and where you aimed it to. Apart from that, the MoP version of atonement encouraged the direct healing style through such abilities like Prayer of Healing (that has been pruned from discipline), PW:Shield (that has a different function nowadays in the overall class toolset than it had then), even Flash Heal and Greater Heal (while Shadowmend tries to fill the same role, in my opinion it is doing so a lot worse because of how it is extremely inefficient and hardly part of the toolset outside of the emergency situation). Buffs such as renew were used as dispel protection, and besides the existence of a hot did come in handy sometimes, such as when you knew you would come into CC you would not be able to avoid in PvP. Utility abilities like Spectral Guise were multiuse abilities - you could Guise to get a fear off in Arena, or you could Guise to prevent a wipe in PvE, or to pass a trash pack in Challenge Mode dungeons, or to simply avoid aggro in PvE or to simply buy a few seconds when focused in PvP. Cooldowns like Spirit Shells, the MoP mastery, all had great synergy together, all would have different roles depending on the medium of play (dungeon, raid, pvp), and different ways of exploiting their advantages.

BfA disc priest is a lot more, at least in my meager experience, a preprogrammed bot. Every single decisional crossroads have a very clear cut better choice. For example, in a raid you are there to provide raid cooldown surrogates via your atonement ramp-up and aoe healing dump. In dungeons, compared to the more traditional healers, your toolset is simply slightly inadequate, and that much is apparent in how discipline priests are never the preferred choice in high end mythic+ groups and haven’t been since mythic+ begun in Legion (it’s a large scale design issue, not the fact that disc would be somehow undertuned - the toolkit isn’t actually great for 5 player content, and only overtuned numbers can actually make it viable there). In Arena pvp, the base class mechanic of atonement is an afterthought at most, and discipline priest viability is determined almost solely by these three factors: how well is the priest added damage, fear and (maybe) dark wings synergy with mage or hunter CC and burst at a given time, and that is evident from watching how since the beginning of Legion, the only setups that actually included a discipline priest routinely were RMP and jungle. This is all fine and dandy, but the truth of the matter is that the central class mechanic that is designed now, which is atonement, has practically no bearing on determining what the class is good for, and that’s not optimal to say the least. All these things added up make me feel how the class is half-arsed, with no thought put into it in multiple sections of the game.

In the end, gameplay in my book means the ability to make meaningful choices, and a choice is only meaningful when it meets this criteria:

  • it isn’t obvious - when the proper course is obvious, every single person put in that situation will make the proper choice, given the fact they have the minimum knowledge on the subject to make the determination, which essentially turns the choice into a non-choice.
  • it has consequences on a gradient.
  • the consequences are like ripples, can be seen to affect meaningfully subsequent decision nodes to various degrees.

The BfA design doesn’t do that, it’s simply binary - 0 or 1 - and not on a gradient, and the vast majority of the choices made during gameplay are obvious. The MoP design was very different in this way. And to finish it, while I do not want to write any more essays on other classes, every single class I played for an extended amount of time has the same issue when I am comparing it with the MoP version of itself. As a disclamer, this does not mean that BfA classes are completely devoid of meaningful gameplay choices, it simply means that in my assessment there is a huge gap between the amount of meaningful gameplay choices BfA classes offer and those that MoP classes offered. And it also means that in my opinion, the culprit for this is the ability pruning, because it essentially deleted lots of choices that previously existed, and to me this feels so horrible that I can’t get myself to play WoW any more.

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It’s a fact that many classes are performing much worse than they used to, and calling “trash” a class design which renders things worse and make you go backwards is an understatement imo.

If they’re all underperforming, then there’s nothing wrong. It’s just the new normal. Right?

Again, I’m asking for specifics, yet all I get is ‘generalizations’ and ‘vague badness’.

Because I am. Saying that class design, class balance and gameplay in general is fine is just absolutely delusional and we won’t get anywhere near to the game we used to have if people like him keep playing it down.

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No, it’s not.
Firstly because once you give someone something good which they like then take it away you already strip off of a great portion of their pleasure.
Secondly because classes are not all equal in their “underperformance”. Some are still better and that makes a huge difference. Imbalance is more present than ever.

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Well, let me ask you for specifics then:

What classes do you think are bad? And why?
What don’t you enjoy about them?

Class balance has NEVER (literally never) been a thing since the start of WoW. It’s impossible. It will forever remain a balancing act, constantly tweaking, adding and taking away. It’s the nature of the beast.

What version are you speaking of?
I know there are plenty of past versions of WoW I REALLY don’t want to go back to.

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Which for me didn’t happen. We got Hati, a 2nd pet, for BM in Legion. And in BfA it was added as a talent. Love it.

See my previous post:

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Every single specc is dull, boring and has no depth. They took out everything that made a spec unique, removed half of the abilities from the game and butchered everything that made the gameplay fun and engaging.

You are and you know that.
If you still enjoy soloing old raids for transmog or achievements because your class is so much fun you are lying to yourself.

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One hundred gallant rocks, we are left for to deplore
Whose bodies fell victim upon fair Azeroth’s shore :slight_smile:

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I disagree. :man_shrugging:

I disagree. :man_shrugging:

Those 2 comments aren’t facts and they’re not specifics. Again.
All you seem to be able to do is be aggressive and negative. You are impossible to debate with. You claim every single spec is dull, boring and has not depth; well, I put forward that I seriously doubt you played every single spec. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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Pretty much this.

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Yeah? You played every single spec too huh? :upside_down_face:

The bias and generalization in this thread is astounding. :roll_eyes:

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I mean if you keep enjoying your class I’m totally fine with it but that statement is nothing you could disagree with. It’s exactly what happened and indeed a fact.

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Yeah. And yeah I did. Problem?

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No, it’s not a fact. That’s not what happened to the class and spec I enjoy most. It really didn’t.

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