We are not top dps in any group where the other 2 players are not afk or severely lower geared. Our current strength is in sustained ST damage and we also bring 5% buff to locks/survival/mage. Our problem lies within our AoE damage, where even perfect circumstances on a 4min cooldown ability only put us on a similar level as a 2min spell from anyone else. We need help with things like uncapping eye beam damage, buffing blade dance damage. These changes wouldn’t impact our raid performance (which is already getting worse) and would just make the spec feel much better.
1 Like
Everyone wants the spec they play most buffed. We’d all like to be able to consistently top the meters, but it isn’t possible for everyone to top the meters all the time. I’m happy with being stronger in some areas and weaker in others, and I don’t mind being 3rd on the overall meter as long as I’m within 1k of whoever is 1st.
Yes, it is, but you also illustrated the point that havoc benefits from Urh (and especially the combination of Urh and haste buffs) more than most specs. You don’t even need the red buffs to be able to spam blade dance - all you need is Urh + BL.
I’ll say again, asking for buffs to havoc at this point is pretty much like saying ‘I wanna be OP again like I was in BfA’ (when everyone else hated havoc and screamed for nerfs). I’d much rather be average than open every tuning post with my breath held waiting for the devs to give in to popular demand and nerf us into oblivion.
about the 1st thesis: Havoc strong time(meta sinful brand on a huge pack) is near to another class consistent dps. As havoc you do same damage as SV/rogue maybe ww (not mentioning wl) on 2-2:30 mins. Considering same buffs (like uhr,bl,nf priest) . So your big moment is just not there for you might be big but for the other dps is avg. You gonna be third on the meters but the gap is going to get bigger and bigger as the level of the key goes up and sometimes you gonna get 4th(you can check ciccero’s key with noawh(bdk) at SD).
about the 2nd thesis on red buffs: Yes I can confirm that red buffs is a huge thing for havoc at that fight. It shortens gcd and also with anywhere from 28-35% haste most havoc players play with it doesnt put on 1s cd your blade dance…the difference with red buff is without it you get 1s cd on BD/DS and bigger gcd…if you have it there is no cd on blade dance + your gcd is way shorter so you can do 2 more BD/DS while without redbuff you have to wait for 1 sec to get it off cd which is huge.
About 3rd thesis: In BFA borrowed power made us uber strong through azerite armor-corruptions-essences which all 3 alligned perfectly for havoc but still was competing with rogue in dps. Mostly once again you would see havoc in high pushed keys because once again mage was uber good and we had immunity to survive(dmg like autoshots that are not considered in low keys) and we had the stops and we had burst profile and we had 100% dodge on BD where we could cheese mechanics like TD last boss frontal shot.
Compared on shadowlands: Havoc got hard capped on almost every ability and sqrt capped on eyebeam which means we lost a lot of our bursty aoe profile. About borrowed power in shadowlands none of the covenants scale well or having a weird interaction that makes them good for m+ we speak about pve. NF good but lego is just bad. Venthyr good on st but suffers in aoe situations.Necro rng so you cant have on demand damage +leggo is just bad for aoe. Kyrian has 0 potential cause it has good lego but talents are not compatible with tier set and you sacrifice any amount of st you got. Further changes we got coming into shadowlands we lost 100% dodge on bd, we aren’t that survivable as we where in bfa cause demonic appetite is not viable in any kind of content and we lost passive healing from azerite armor. Yeah you got leech but on a 2-2:30 min cd or you have to spec out of immunity…guess what’s the option for high keys. Immunity always. Extra change fel brrage is on the same row with demonic so you cant spec into barrage cause you get less value from tier set.
Conclusion : I want my class to be comparable with other classes so I can push into high keys without getting the feeling that I am a dub actor in the key . I dont want my class to be uber broken I am asking for changes that it needs to be comparable if you think that 5-8 target cap on eyebeam is going to bring us back to top dps i would recommend you
to go into a 20 see what overall damage your eyebeam does and reconsider about it. Also I am not afraid for havoc to be nerfed if it is broken but I am not afraid to provide feedback when it’s needed.
4 Likes
Yes, we are far from top. We are last if we have two casters with us. I mean DH is usually brought when warlock and frost mage are there or huntard for the utility and magic buff. No matter what you do you cannot beat 1 min demo or frost.
For raids, well we are very strong in some bosses.
meta so sucks so bad 4 mins cd with set 4 it’s will be in the best way 3 mins and what will happen if I used it? nothing xD it’s just upgrade to apility’s are so baaaaaaaaaaad too xD
DH need buff need to be better or maybe blizz want us quite game
Meta is a very strong CD in itself. It’s a moveability with a short immunity, it’s 2xbloodlust (personal), it’s a damage amplifier, it’s a powerful leech, it resets eyebeam (not great for aoe tho). Really it’s a very strong CD.
Just don’t focus on the sinful brand spread (which is also super powerful). What DH need is a redesign more than just a change to CD timing. The 4-set bonus should be entirely different (like reducing eyebeam on both CS and BD as one idea, could change our damage profile to chaos damage - or give us the PvP glaive throw ability).
The 4-set bonus is bad and poorly designed for sure and I agree it feels bad that 28% of our damage (give or take) is from a borrowed power and not from our class abilities.
1 Like
Im sorry but Meta is a stronger CD then Reckless for Fury warriors… If you are not seeing this, then I suggest reading the tooltip o.O
I was told to use Collective Anguish with First Blood, Glaive Tempest, and Dancing With Fate on Venthyr. CA is enough to keep up Sinful Brand for 26-27 seconds on a single target, which means you can refresh it a few seconds after it expires without Cycle of Hatred, or keep it up most of the boss fight with meta. It also means that you get 1 good refresh out of meta with sinful brand, while relying on Blade Dance and Glaive Tempest for most of the damage instead of a combination of Eye Beam and Chaos Strike. So far this seems to scale much better better in M+ up until 22~23 keys, possibly higher.
I gave up on Night Fae because it just doesn’t feel fun with how it works and how you have to rely on unbound chaos + the “free” immolation aura. This Venthyr build relies much less on the meta cooldown and the AoE weakness of Eye Beam, while still giving good sinful brand stacks (and resets on meta). No idea how Burning Wound instead of CA with agony plays.
It’s a shame it has to be this way, because even in the most ideal meta build it’s still extremely lackluster in any scenario. The 4pc set is just horrible to play with.
1 Like
you’ve been told wrong. as venthyr you effectively play around your beam/ca/brand, so anything that wastes fury on any other ability generally isn’t worth pressing/talenting.
You play cycle with UBC, you can conduit dance if you want but its more for death sweep than anything
I’ve been told correctly. My average DPS went up by a lot. Until you hit 25+ keys stuff doesn’t live long enough and you can’t play properly around meta.
You only need that build if packs live long enough for multiple refreshes on agony, which is not going to happen on anything below that.
This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.